blogsNH - Where have all the manners gone??? - Comments

Comment from One of the Northerners

dareme03244 — Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:23:11 -0500

I grew up in New Hampshire, and currently live here. But for three years I had an opportunity to experience living down South where people look at me like I am the freak. They do not like the way that I speak, and they refer to me as a Yankee. They are not friendly. And the ones who seem friendly, by greeting me with, "Hi y'all, how y'all doin?".... they are the first to smile, but the smile doesn't go all the way through. Anyone from New Hampshire knows what I am talking about, when we "Northerners" smile at you, it is because we sincerely like you!

Crater of Diamonds State Park

Susan Sherrouse — Tue, 21 Nov 2006 13:46:33 -0500

Yup...still turned over about monthly by a tractor. It's really nice this time of year, but it can be cold, especially if you use the water method to try to extract the diamonds. We want to go to NC to go emerald mining at some point in the future.

diamonds and mounts

Dan Meeks — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:22:27 -0500

I dug for diamonds many years ago. Is it still just a field that a tractor turned over? After all these years, I have never been to the top. I have been all around it though, many times.

Have Fun!

Susan Sherrouse — Mon, 20 Nov 2006 09:53:02 -0500

Arkansas is so pretty! Have Fun! We were in Murfreesboro last year after Thanksgiving, to go to the diamond mine. We had a blast, just digging in the dirt. You going to Mount Washington?

too good to be true

Dan Meeks — Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:35:18 -0500

Susan, I won't hold you to your offer. It would be too expensive!!! I am going to Arkansas in Mid December, so I will eat some there. Thank you for your wonderful offer!!

Steak!

Susan Sherrouse — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:18:08 -0500

If you send me your address, I'll go to the grocery store and get you some steak! On this topic, I believe that you are right, and it could be that we in Texas are just closer to the large slaughterhouses for beef, therefore it is fresher when it comes to our markets. I seldom put anything on my steak now, and when I lived up north, it was A-1 all the way.

southern food

Dan Meeks — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:37:50 -0500

Now, If I miss anything from the south, its the southern food. Which brings me to the subject of steak. I think Texas has the best tasting steak to be found anywhere. I don't know where they get the beef in New hampshire, but often it tastes like, hmmm... either like liver, or with some sort of chemical flavor, or no taste at all. I might as well be eating the soles of my shoes. I can eat a Texas steak without any salt, pepper, garlic salt, Barbeque sause, myriads of steak flavoring spices, or A1 sause. Up here, you need all of those.

Someone should do something about this!!

dan

Mississippi

Susan Sherrouse — Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:01:01 -0500

Hi Mississippi Gal! I'm glad you came back!

I've heard that Oxford is a really beautiful place. I remember seeing it written up as one of the best places to retire, so it must have a lot to offer. I'd like to get up that way sometime. As far as the houses on Beach Boulevard in the Pass...you'd be amazed as to how many are still standing. We lived over by the cemetary north of the tracks, and our area (south of North St) and Henderson Point were pretty much completely wiped out. It's interesting, though to note that some of the houses closer to the Wal-Mart on 90 and down towards Long Beach way were completely demolished, including foundations. If you get the chance, go down there. You will laugh, you will cry, but it will be a good trip to make. Go over to Bay St. Louis, too. Been over one time since the storm. That's all I could handle.

You are correct in that people have so many preconcieved ideas about the south. We are all Rednecks (thanks, Jeff Foxworthy!), we are all illiterate, we are stupid, and we live in trailers. I've found some of the most amazing people here in Mississippi. People with true backbone, who won't give up when life's little hurdles come there way. People who stand up for what they believe, politically correct or not. People who accept others for who and what they are. Heck, I've encountered less racism down here than up north!

Right now, being in Texas, It makes me miss the manners, the way we treat one another, in the 'true south'. Texas isn't part of the south, and It's not part of the southwest, unless you get right up near the New Mexico/Texas border. Where we are, it's more a huge melting-pot from all over the world, as Fort Hood is the largest Army base in the Free World. But the food here is pretty dang good!

I hope you enjoy your time in Kentucky, I hope it goes quickly, and I hope you get to the place of your dreams. And please come back often!

I'm originally from Oxford,

mississippi gal — Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:42:00 -0500

I'm originally from Oxford, MS. but moved from there when i was 10, to a lil one horse town called Iuka, MS. Iuka is located in the northeast corner of the state. It's a very beautiful area of MS. I've been living in Alabama for the past 3 years, in school. I moved to Louisville, KY in March. Kentucky is ok. Louisville is the largest place i've ever lived, so it doesn't share the kindness of the south as I am accustomed to. Anyway, Pass Christian was an amazing place. I haven't been there since the hurricane. I was down there for Mardi Gras back in 03 an teh day after the New Orleans parades, we went to the one there. We had to park rally far away but it was definately worth the walk. Those old houses are beautiful, well i guess i should say "were beautiful" I can't believe they are gone. THAT my southern friend is a real tragedy... Anyway, this is the first time i've ever been on a blog of any sort and i was googleing one day and just so happen to come upon your entry and couldn't resist on putting my two cents out there about the subject. I really do love the south and it's alway nice to find someone else who can appreciate a wonderful place. Many people have so many preconseptions about the south that are stupid and untrue. So i just wanted to tell you that i appreciate your opinions. THANKS

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Susan Sherrouse — Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:07:01 -0500

I think Aretha Franklin has it right. I have many ideas to address here, from Dan, Bill and mississippi Gal (where are you from? I'd love to hear from you again!)

Bill, there is a difference between Civility and Politeness. The American Heritage Dictionary defines Civility as: 1. Politeness; Courtesy; 2. A Courteous Act. Politeness is defined by the same dictionary as: 1. Marked by consideration, tact, and courtesy; 2. Refined, elegant.

As for manners and what might be deemed correct to others and 'the lowest common denominator', I find this crap. Manners can be had by anyone, at anytime. They are not inherited, they can be learned. It's like poker. Poker can be learned by anyone, anywhere, and the novice has just as equal a chance as the pro to win the pot. Manners level the playing field. They make everyone equal to one another. Table manners are a good example. Do you want to eat with your hands as you grew up, or do you want to fit in with everyone else and use the fork, knife and spoon? And remember, this in no way takes away from your individuality.

Dan; you are exactly right. This has denigrated into a conversation about what is right for the individual, with out looking at society as a whole. We all do things to 'fit-in'. Manners are part of this. Again, it does not take away from anyone's individuality. And there are equal amounts of rude people and nice people everywhere. It's just that to me, nice people stand out, since I'm so used to dealing with all the rude ones!!!

Mississippi Gal, yes, the South runs at it's own pace. I long to be back in Pass Christian, just wandering around downtown (it's all of maybe two blocks), tending garden, taking a long walk on the beach, or going to the docks to buy shrimp (my favorite!!) Everyone is so nice, accomodating, and everyone's attitude is positive. I believe that southerners know that complaining gets you no where, it's a positive attitude that gets you everything (especially in MS!) As an elderly friend used to say, ' You catch more flies with honey than you do with s**t.' It's like the movie 'Pay it Forward'. Do something nice for some one, and watch it come back to you twenty-fold. And that's the truth. Besides, who would want to help some one who is mean and nasty with a bad attitude? Not me!

in conclusion, the south is slower, and we are more respectful. And being respectful also means being respectful of the traditions of others. Just because you belch in the Ritz-Carleton a lack of manners doesn't condemn you, because manners can be learned. I see manners as a tradition which spans all socio-economic classes. It has to span all the classes, because appearances are deceiving. And to be polite and respectful to all shows the pride and respect you have for yourself and all others.

smile

mississippi gal — Wed, 1 Nov 2006 15:07:02 -0500

Well, just to chime in a bit. I'm from the south. been there all my life. The purpose of manners is all about respect. Respect your elders, respect women, respect people in general..... I love the south. i like that people are friendly. and yes, i think it's very nice to have a man hold a door open for me. Do i need it? NO but do i appreciate it? YES, absolutley..... I recently relocated to Kentucky. and for all of those that think Kentucky is part of "the south"... well it's not!!! so i've really aprreciated the south more and more. It's the small things that make a big difference. We may be a bit slower down south but atleast we're respectful. and hey, maybe that's why we're so friendly, because we slow down to enjoy the world around us...... and plus, who wants to be around all the negative energy from someone who can't even lift up their head and give a friendly nod and "howdy do" :)

Yes, yes ...

Bill Gnade — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 00:26:43 -0500

You are right, Dan. It seems that it all does have a lot to do with selfishness.

Peace,

It's all about....?

Dan Meeks — Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:13:20 -0400

I think I see a whole lot of "its all about me." That attitude permeates our society at this time. Manners involve me thinking about the other person and giving consideration to that person.

This whole thread started about the manners demonstrated by folks who live in the north as opposed to people living in the south. It is remarkable the twists and turns this thread has taken. I am happy though that it has spurned interest and different opinions.

I, for one, think there are rude people every where. I also think their are polite people everywhere. If a person is friendly, does that confirm that that person is polite? One would certainly want to lean that way. If a person goes out of their way to help you in a time of distress. Does that certify that the person who gives the helping hand is polite and has manners? One would certainly lean that way. If a person steals your parking spot, does that mean they are rude? One would lean that way. If a person stabs you in the back and gets your job promotion, does that mean that person is impolite? One would lean that way.

So, as you can see, actions do say something; but do they prove something? one would lean that way.

Summary. I like to be around polite people. I dislike being around selfish, rude, and impolite people.

Dan

Thank you

Bill Gnade — Sat, 28 Oct 2006 08:15:01 -0400

Dear Susan,

Forgive me if I at all came across as combative. I see that I might have been a wee bit strong in my initial post here.

Yes, you are right about "Give Me A Break." There was no reasoning with him (or her).

If I can return to my initial point about manners, it is this: People (particularly in the theoretically egalitarian north) have rejected more formal manners because formality represents the values of the privileged. But in egalitarianism there is a tendency to elevate what is perceived (by traditionalists) as crude manners; such crudeness is elevated because of the prevailing pretense that no one's manners are better than anyone else's. For all we know, that crude white kid with hip-hop etiquette is really being polite -- in HIS way -- and we just don't understand him. Even if he offends us, he does not offend his peers. Who are we to impose our values on him? Why should we think we are so much better? And on it goes.

You are right about the civility of our ancestors, many of whom were English to the core and hailed from aristocratic traditions. But what has slowly happened in this country, largely in the north, is the prevailing idea that not only are all persons equal under the law, all people, along with everything else, are equal. That this latter idea is very jumbled and confusing is no surprise. But it is part of the source of our problems.

And, I believe, the other reason our manners have been shot through in America (in many places) is that the American Dream permits it: What is great about America, in part, is that the poor can, sometimes, become suddenly wealthy. Not that the poor are ill-mannered, mind you. But if we look at many people who have gained ascendancy in America, people who have gained great wealth and cultural influence, they have done so by elevating vulgarity, mediocrity, indecency (and pornography); they have exploited bad manners and made them funny, humorous, charming, and, yes, even desirable. We see this in countless TV shows and commercials; we have seen it in pop music and pop film. The Beastie Boys are feted; The Beverly Hillbillies -- who may have been quite polite -- blunder their way among the privileged; Animal House shatters prep school propriety. In other words, what is perceived to be the bottom is raised to the top: the lowest common denominator is lauded, while the highest is lowered. I am not suggesting that the poor are impolite; I am suggesting that they have been painted as such. Hence, what is low is lifted up, codified, honored. Eat with your fingers, belch at the Ritz, cuss in front of the Queen, pass gas in church, talk potty before the president, stand naked in the locker room after the World Series: there are countless examples of this sort of crudeness holding high station in film, TV, sports, music, and literature. (Once bad manners gain wealth or produce wealth, they are not going away.)

Lastly, is there a difference between civility and politeness?

Anyhow, more random and no doubt indefensible thoughts. I am straining at something. I am just not sure what it is. Perhaps it is that our culture and economy are driven by the youth market (in many ways): too much effort, really, is used to keep adoloscence, and junior-high etiquette, alive. No one wants to grow up.

Blessings, and peace.

Bill Gnade

Comments

Susan Sherrouse — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:45:28 -0400

Bill;

Thanks for your comments. It's always good to hear another voice on this topic which has taken on a life of it's own.

I know no one who equates being civil with aristocracy. If so, then our ancestors must have had very high aspirations, for they did have manners, were civil to one another, and conducted themselves as such. But in this respect, you are right. The North is very elitiest, and holds itself to a much different standard than the rest of the country

As for giving some slack to 'Give me a break', yes, I did. 'Give me a break's' initial blog on this topic seemed to be tied up in the warfare between the North & the South, "30 years after the North abolished slavery the south still had slaves. After slavery was finally abolished in the south, they enacted the Jim Crow laws, segregating whites and blacks. Segregation ended in 1964, only 42 years ago. And if I am correct, there are still various local laws in various southern states that still allow segregation" I had intended this blog to address the ways in which Northerners and Southerners differ in the ways we treat one another, not to get into a discussion between the War Between the States.

Conceeding to 'Give me a break' was exactly that. There are some times when it is better to retreat, than to fight. It was clear from the start that 'Give me a break' had some type of ax to grind with anyone from the South, and he was looking to use me as his punching bag. I'm not anyone's punching bag, but again, I NEVER intended this blog to be used as a forum to re-hash the sins of the South.

What I will say is this: The Southern states are the most intriguing states I've ever lived in. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time in Georgia and Mississippi, and would gladly go back there again. There is much to see and appreciate in both places. They evoke a sense of 'oldness' that one does not get living West of the Mississippi, where a home erected in 1890 is considered 'old' (back in NH, that's considered a home with character).

And since you like facts, here's one for you: There is a community in Gulfport, MS called Turkey Creek, which is made up of the descendents of former slaves. If you ever venture down that way, e-mail me and I'll give you directions. It's a very nice little community not far off the beaten path.

Best Regards,

Susan

Where have all the manners gone???

Susan Sherrouse — Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:35:01 -0400

I moved to Mississippi in January, 2005 and was immediately struck by the differences in the way people are treated, the manners we use to define who and what we are, and how we percieve the ways people relate to us.