blogsNH - Chinks in the Armor - Comments

Misinformation

Bill Bunker — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 12:03:46 -0400

Michael,

For one, Congress had the same intelligence, believed it and supported the invasion of Iraq......if Bush is guilty, so are they. Those are "facts".

What was the sacrifice that we took when we participated in Bosnia? What was the sacrifice when we send cruise missiles into aspirin factories? What are the sacrifices of Charlie Rangel when, on the taxpayer's dime, he gets the biggest ass cadillac during a fuel crisis.

I could go on all day but your rhetoric accomplishes nothing but cause further divide. The best way to insure that the economy is good for our children is to ease restrictions on business and industry that creates jobs. That is called CAPITALISM; the only system on Earth that strengthens economy.

We are selling our country to China because of labor unions that spur laziness and causes industry to look at an overseas workforce.

Tax breaks for the rich. Considering the top 10% of the population pays 90% of the income taxes, I do not see greed there.

Immoral refers to things like cheating on your wife, murdering a person, late term abortion, etc. It does not refer to your narrow definition of selfishness and greed.

What you and others call selfishness and greed is an infantile rant of jealousy....that is a "FACT". You want to be rich, make it happen; look at it as taking responsibility for yourself. It is far more refreshing than wasting time being envious of others....GEEEEESCH!

Judy, here's a very good

Michael Evans — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:55:19 -0400

Judy, here's a very good example. We went to war in Iraq under false intelligence and lies, and instead of everyone having to make a sacrifice, we are paying for this war by charging it to your children and grandchildren while at the same time selling our country to China. Then we give tax breaks to the very rich.

I, for one, think this is immoral, and is based on selfishness and greed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

What ????

Jehardy — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:01:28 -0400

Generally, their positions are based on the greed and selfishness and the desire to resist paying their share.

This sentence implies we are not all paying our fair share already? So you think bigger goverment and higher taxes paid by us all is the answer? Please tell me how that will bring Utopia and positive "change" you believe in?

To each his own...

Terri Oberg — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:01:25 -0400

As I said, I enjoy the read. I am thankful there are people out there who delight, even become animated, in the fray. My oscar's colors become vivid and he is so much more animated and a joy to watch while he is feeding. I, however, know my place and liken it to the hapless goldfish. I usually resist jumping into the debate simply because I know I would be quickly sucked in and crushed by the more skillful, quick witted, polically savvy predetors that monitor the waters. I will cower behind the rock and learn from others daring exploits.

Terri

Bill Bunker — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:56:52 -0400

I would tend to agree. Even facts mean little today as both sides challenge even 'in your face' facts.

You are an intelligent lady, do not sell yourself short, getting the facts is pretty easy as there are only a handful of "fact" sites out there. Factcheck.org, Snops and others are a good place to start. Also, government sites are good but you have to read and interpret the facts. Most of all, someone like yourself might be the catalyst that adds a viewpoint that pulls both sides together......you never know; so join in.

As I have stated through this string and many others, I have definite opinions but the only way anything will get solved is through consensus and give and take.

Read my last post and you will understand what I am in support op.....getting on with life and being left alone to live a free existence absent of someone dictating how I should do that.

I stated in the post that change is expected and good but constant change is annoying. Just let people live their very short life and stop focusing on reordering society in some utopian vision.

Capitalism works and if it falters, fix it.........life is too short to deal with this agenda...that is my main thrust. If we had to move every week or kept changing jobs every six months or could not depend on a stable relationship it would wear us down.

It is the same thing going on in politics........constant change breeds instability.

I know that my opinion is not shared by a majority (although neither is the other side in the majority), but I would be remiss if I did not at least stand up and make the case...to be complacent would breed a one sided agenda and constant change. We owe it to our families and children to make their lives a little more stable and not ever changing.

The fish analogy is accurate, very accurate

What are you talking about?

Bill Bunker — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:33:57 -0400

Michael,

What are you talking about......Your facts are from unreliable sources and your rhetoric is always......."greed and selfishness".

Here is a fact for you.....life is short and people just want to live their lives and enjoy their families and what they have. Change is good but constant change for special interests and having to be watchdogs to stop government from restricting our lives and taking our freedoms away makes life laborious.

At the end of the day, what I want is to live my life undisturbed. You folks are like the Trojan horse.......you bear watching as your goal is to redefine everything in your image and belief. It would sure be nice to have some peace.

It starts with Congress and in the last few years they have been given the name "lawmakers". I think we have enough "laws". What we need is a respite from agenda driven politics, corporate investment that creates good jobs and to just have political parties lay off of the citizens. Let people live their lives, be self determined and self reliant. Help those in need and those who need help.....stop trying to reorder society....that is where the argument comes in......................................

There will be no consensus until everyone involved relaxes and let's everyone live their lives and solve their own challenges.

I know what you mean.

Michael Evans — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:35:34 -0400

There are times I wonder why I bother to try and debate with these people. They remind me of those "no children left behind" who can only regurgitate what they've been taught to pass a test. They wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the face. Generally, their positions are based on the greed and selfishness and the desire to resist paying their share.

I'm sure I'll get beat-up for stating that truth.

much like a feeding frenzy

Terri Oberg — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:25:30 -0400

And this is why I don't mind reading different opinions, but refuse to actually jump into the fray. One has to be willing to participate in a crazed "fact down" and be a bottomless pit of "intellectual" knowledge to even consider attempting a "spirited debate". Reading this "debate" was much like watching my Oscar chase goldfish around the tank....

Let's Talk.....

Bill Bunker — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 00:12:52 -0400

Scott,

Clay posted a note on challenging bloggers to debate. I think from here on in, we should just challenge the posts with good factual information and point out what we perceive as propaganda.

Clay is right that we should not scare away new bloggers......if they are unable or do not want to debate then we should just present the facts in concise form.

It is too bad that it needs to be that way but don't be discouraged by this turn. It is telling.

Keep up the good blogging.

No Worries

Scott Ives — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 23:25:46 -0400

Good men cannot stand idly by while there is mischief about. But as my Grandmother once told me, argue with a fool and soon it will become next to impossible to tell the difference between you and the fool.

Yours in Progress,

Scott

You Know......

Bill Bunker — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 20:45:33 -0400

Scott,

If you look at the progressives who practice the hit and run diatribes, they are the generation of the 60's who, for over four generations, have held these core beliefs.

I know this how? Let's just say that you can find out many things about anyone. They are in the 60-75 age range and if you look at letter writers who do the same thing in the Monitor, it is the same story.

Beyond that though, they have waited and this is the best and probably the last shot for them to build their Utopian world with all of the social trappings and wondrous peace that will ensue.

For 40 years they have taken advantage of a system that they loathe and held on to their core beliefs. You have to admire that. Unfortunately, where they fall short is that long ago, they were not able to sell this far Left agenda so instead, they have clandestinely worked within the system.

You have to respect their persistence. For them to openly discuss their core beliefs and their core agenda, they would have no chance of success convincing Americans; few would want that agenda. Therefore, they have, through organizations like NH Peace Action, Think Progress, etc. pushed their agenda through spin, propaganda and innuendo. They do not want reasoned debate with discussion of facts. George could not be bothered, no matter how successful he has been in the free market and as a professional. That says alot.

For decades the press has leaned Left and there were no outlets. Now that we have Fox News, which is really fair and balanced, they are angry and excoriate a network that may at times lean more conservative but DOES give both sides. All they have to offer is negativity and bitter criticism. It is all telling.

You can be silent if you want...."Cricket", but at the end of the day I would not suggest it. We need to stay on message and practice this thing called politics like they do.....repeating the same things until people believe them.

In our case, the only difference would be that we will get the "FACTS" to the people; George and others will spew propaganda, hoping to stir the pot of dissent until their agenda is realized. No crickets, Scott.....please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's an idea...

Scott Ives — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:01:52 -0400

Bill,

I'm thinking that anyone who responds to a post with an insult or a Mc talking point should here the sweet chirping sound of crickets as a response. Those that come forward with passionate, well thought out positions get my full attention and respect...What do you think?

Scott

How could I have been so blind...

Scott Ives — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:34:22 -0400

That stunning and well reasoned, articulate reply has led me to see the light!

OBAMA, OBAMA, OBAMA Oh dear I'm feeling faint...

He's been around so long, he

Michael Evans — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:19:03 -0400

He's been around so long, he should be put out to pasture. He doesn't have it anymore, and flip-flops like a fish in the bottom of a boat. The world is too dangerous to have this senile white-haired dude with his thumb on the "bomb." The failed policies of the last 8 years need to be replaced, and McShame won't be doing that. You're asking for a third Bush term which means more wars and more failures more debt and more death.

No doubt McCain has his faults...

Scott Ives — Sat, 9 Aug 2008 16:03:21 -0400

But with the world as it is, I think I will support the guy with the 50 plus years of experience, warts and all. The world is too dangerous to elect a fellow that hasn't been around long enough to learn where all the exits are in his Senate office building...Just saying!

Chinks in the Armor

George Duncan — Tue, 5 Aug 2008 15:49:36 -0400

One of the many chinks in John McCain’s armor appears to be his reputation – so far unchallenged – as a supporter of veterans, a market, the Palm Beach Post points out, that McCain’s militaristic stance should have cornered. Veterans however, beg to differ. Checking the Web site for The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, I was stunned to discover that Senator Warrior rates no more than a “D” for his anti-veteran voting record. What’s more, Barack Obama rates a “B plus.” In fact, several liberal congressmen rank well above their flag-waving conservative colleagues in the eyes of the veterans group. The Disabled American Veterans give McCain 20% and Obama 80%!