Chinks in the Armor
One of the many chinks in John McCain’s armor appears to be his reputation – so far unchallenged – as a supporter of veterans, a market, the Palm Beach Post points out, that McCain’s militaristic stance should have cornered. Veterans however, beg to differ. Checking the Web site for The Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, I was stunned to discover that Senator Warrior rates no more than a “D” for his anti-veteran voting record. What’s more, Barack Obama rates a “B plus.” In fact, several liberal congressmen rank well above their flag-waving conservative colleagues in the eyes of the veterans group. The Disabled American Veterans give McCain 20% and Obama 80%!
Then Keith Olbermann on his “Countdown” program on MSNBC ticked off some of the reasons the McCain veterans’ banner might be sagging a little. Among the points he made were Senate Majority Leaders Harry Reid’s note that in mid-2007 McCain only showed up for four of 14 Senate votes on Iraq. So far in 2008 he showed up for none, including a resolution honoring the fallen.
Looking back at his record, Olbermann notes that in April 2003 McCain tabled the motion to provide over $1 billion of National Guard and Reserve equipment to the troops. In October 2003, he tabled an amendment to provide an additional $322 million for safety equipment for U.S troops in Iraq. March 2004, Olbermann goes on, he voted against an extra $430 million for veteran outpatient care. In may 2006, he voted against $20 million for veteran health care facilities. In March 2007 he didn’t show up to vote on a resolution to start redeploying troops from Iraq by March 2008. In September 2007, he voted against Senator Webb’s amendment that would specify minimum rest periods for troops between deployments; and in May 2008 he spoke out against Senator Webb’s GI Bill and then didn’t bother to show up to vote on it.
As a veteran myself, I’d have to ask whose side is he on?
Politicians acting like politicians?
Stunning revelation made today: politicians operate their never-ending campaigns to become elected and reelected. Bare witness to such revealing mid-course corrections like McCain deciding some offshore drilling is a good idea, and now Obama too. Then there's the more protracted Iraq withdrawal plan revisions by Obama. By the time he or McCain gains office, they'll be within a day of each other on the withdrawal date; it's the nature of splitting the soft middle. Remember when all those democrats vying for a seat in Congress vowed to end the Iraq War last election? How did that progressive punchline work out?
What's next, the more stunning proclamation that politicians lie? I await with baited breath.
- Not impressed with the foothills because the White Mtns are sooo much bigger,
C. dog e. doG
Nice Points, but..........................
Interesting information but it is cherry picked to make a partisan point. Here is some accurate information on the G.I. Bill By the way, McCain had a similar bill but due to Democratic wrangling, his never saw the light of day.
1) Full tuition educational benefits will not take effect until August 1, 2009. That is quite a time to wait to be funded.
2) The Montgomery GI Bill benefits for active duty veterans and those with two or more years of active duty will raise the maximum benefit to $1321 for full time students with three or more years of active duty under the terms of the Post 9-11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act of 2008.
3) The stipends for living expenses and books will also not take effect until August 1, 2009 and Jim “Porno” Webb that this came as a surprise and the final bill passed by Congress omitted crucial paragraphs of Webb’s legislation.
Webb promised a bill that is loaded with flaws, missteps and guffaws; proving that his ramrod attempt to score political points and show concern for veterans was hollow. Here are just a few of the flaws:
People who previously enrolled in the Montgomery GI Bill program must continue to make their $100 monthly installments until they have fully paid the $1,200 contribution required to participate — even though the post-9/11 benefits program will be completely free.
According to the Military Times
“Pentagon officials said ending contributions is not allowed under either the new or previous law, and that enrollments in the Montgomery GI Bill continue because there are some types of post-service education, including on-the-job and vocational training, that are not covered by the new program.
Military officials are working on a briefing for new recruits that will explain the differences between the old and new veterans’ benefits programs. It will recommend that troops continue to enroll in the Montgomery GI Bill program if there is any chance they might need non-traditional education.
The disappointing news about the lack of retroactive benefits and continued enrollment charges came from the departments Veterans Affairs and Defense, who have staffs poring over the details of what is now Public Law 110-252 to determine how it will be implemented.
Defense and VA aides said they are working with congressional staff to implement the benefits plan that was passed by Congress and to suggest changes when errors were made.”
If the GI Bill was a straight piece of legislation, others, including McCain would have supported it. Unfortunately, in Washington D.C. they water down straightforward legislation by adding on pork. This bill was no exception. Two prominent added amendments added on an $11 billion extension of unemployment benefits and $10 billion for Gulf Coast reconstruction. It also contained legislation that delayed the implementation of new Medicare rules.
No matter how anyone feels about any of these issues, the GI Bill should have stood along. Is $50 billion too much…..no…..not based on the sacrifice of our troops but progressives are using the military. All of the added on sneaky legislation should stand alone on an up or down vote!
Stating that “we support the troops but not the mission” is shameful……and disingenuous. Progressives are not friends of the military. Are the memories of people that short that they forget Murtha claiming that our troops are massacring innocents in Haditha? All but one soldier had their cases dropped and one was found not guilty. No apology to the troops from John Murtha.
Do people have short memories about John Kerry? Forget about his shameful testimony about his fellow troops treating civilians in Viet Nam “in the fashion of Genghis Kahn” which turned out to be innuendo. What about Kerry’s quote: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.” Sounds like a lot of support for the 150,000 troops in Iraq at the time of his speech.
How can people forget Dick Durbin’s statement: “If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime — Pol Pot or others — that had no concern for human beings,"
Sure, later they all apologized but at the end of the day, Obama is no different in philosophy and doctrine than the leading progressives in his party.
As far as approval ratings are concerned, Obama’s history can not be compared to McCain’s as he has limited experience. I question the polls and grades given as my internet research shows different information and state by state DAV shows much stronger support for McCain than Obama. As far as IAVA is concerned it claims to be non-partisan but phraseology such as “the group speaks truth to power”, gives away the agenda. That phrase is right out of the progressive handbook.
To invoke the name of Keith Olbermann as a journalist and reliable source is laughable. MSNBC is more partisan than FOX ever thought about being. The Left complains about Ann Coulter….well….MSNBC has Rachel Maddow, who is the poster child for Karl Marx style Socialism. Olbermann is not a reliable source.
All of his claims can be explained away because pork barrel amendments were added on to each one.
Hey, I do not care for McCain but to pretend that Obama, an unproven commodity is more sympathetic to the military is disinformation and just plain silly; no matter what conjured up one sided miniscule facts anyone spins.
George, you write as your tag line: “The purpose in writing my letters is to expose progressive values to an essentially conservative population in my region. A secondary purpose is to define or re-define today's new conservatism (Neocon) as the negative, destructive force I believe it to be.”
I admire the principles on which you state your mission. I would like to answer that mission by saying that the population is NOT essentially conservative anywhere in the state so I respectfully disagree. As for a invoking the name Neocon, I must say that I have never met one, no one I know considers themselves a Neocon.
I will tell you though, conservatives are ready for reasoned and rational debate without the spin, innuendo or consideration that we have it all figured out. Hell, most of us are willing to meet you half way….can you say the same?
If you are really interested in changing the view of the "essentially conservative" members of your community, you should look at things from more than one perspective and use your noggin' instead of DNC talking points, MoveOn rhetoric and special interest group politics. Maybe then discussion can be intelligent with command of the facts.
The Usual
The usual expected reply.
I might remind you Michael that there is a difference between flip flopping for political gain and changing one's viewpoint because you should to help out your constituents.
If Sununu voted on issues you are concerned about, they way you wanted him to, three years ago, you still would not support him today. This is an election over dogma and doctrine, not what is best for the population. It is a 'kid in the candy store' run to get an agenda through election.
Changing your support to do something like help out struggling families with gas prices is not the same as flip flopping. Taking multiple stands on the same subject is flip flopping....aka.....Obama.
I really could care less, who the man or woman is that is elected...I would rather have someone telling me what I did not want to hear, a little honesty is what every American should want in their elected officials.
To date, Obama has moderated his opinions on Iraq and drilling. However, we know McCain from years in Congress....we do not know if we can trust Obama.....what is one to believe when he takes two positions......that makes him a flip flopper!
McCain Difference
While Senator McCain was not my first or even second choice I will support him in the November election. I will support him because his economic policy will not cause the catastrophic financial meltdown which Obama will create if allowed to mess with capital gains and social security withholding rates.
I will support Senator McCain because he Will help create an energy policy that will include increasing domestic capacity as well as looking for new sources of energy. If he falters I and many other conservatives will be there to remind him of our commitment to this issue.
I will support Senator McCain because he will intelligently prosecute the war on terror and will work to insure we remain safe from domestic attacks. He does not apologize for America and her people. We are a good and caring nation we need not apologize to any nation for our behavior. I do not mean to imply that we are perfect but we work harder than any other country in the world to do the right thing.
John McCain is an honorable man, Barack Obama may be as well but there is no comparison when it comes to the experience both men bring to the office of what has been described as the "toughest job in the world". If you were to print both mens resumes without names and grade them blind, Barack Obama's would not be in the top ten never mind the top two. Bright yes, inspirational and a fine public speaker, yes again, but President of the United States of America is too big a promotion for one as inexperienced as Barack Obama!
How long must we wait?
What? No pithy, fact-based retorts from Mikey, like the ones he regularly leaves on Bill's Blog?
Re Mikey's latest: "Basically just another opinion piece with additional biased commentary from our own Mr. Bunker. Hardly worth the time to scan. Same old, same old right wing rhetoric But Mr. Bunker would feel neglected if I didn't recognize his effort."
Mikey, your silence speaks volumes when Bill hits you with a WWF "fact-down".
Bill –
Excellent response, one of your best. It's almost as if you were lying in the brush waiting to ambush this topic. Spooky, man, spooky.
- C. dog e. doG
Dog......again........
Hey Dog,
Yes, once again we hear the crickets............the silence is deafening. First the trans fat silence, then the chinks in the armor silence and on and on.......
No ambushing agenda....just using facts versus emotion. Somehow that is viewed progressively, in the same way that civilized man views a Neanderthal. Of course that is only one perspective
As we have mentioned before, progressives are not interested in the facts, only agenda.
Hey, stop picking on Mike; he is interested in the debate, just not responding with those facts that seem to elude true believers. It is interesting to listen to read what many substitute as fact with propaganda.
Go easy, Dog, no personal attacks on my dime, please........
Where's George?
George, you started this thing.....Well? I was hoping for a spirited and thoughtful rebuttal of the points raised throughout this chain....
Better Yet.. Who is George??
Ooooo! I Love Google. Even if it is a Left leaning establishment. <wink>
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/contributions/george-duncan.asp?cycle=08
Not Nice Judy...................................................
Not nice Judy....... I could not decipher that site anyway.
Crickets are plentiful on this blog post. I am sure that anyone who disagrees will be dismissed with the traditional silence that we have come to expect.
It would be good to have point by point debate, discussion and discovery of maybe some points that would bring us closer together.
Disappointing indeed. It seems like a waste of time to pull out the research on all of the topics and then be met with silence. It does speak volumes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Disappointed in Progressives
I yearn for a well crafted argument, that gives me pause to consider an alternative point of view. Come on George what's the worse thing that could happen?
Scott
Campaign Contributions
If I read Judy's link correctly, only two people have contributed to political campaigns from Barnstead, NH, the happy home of our own BB; he wasn't one of them. You lied to me, Billo.
McSame, McShame
I will support Senator McCain because he Will help create an energy policy that will include increasing domestic capacity as well as looking for new sources of energy. If he falters I and many other conservatives will be there to remind him of our commitment to this issue.
I will support Senator McCain because he will intelligently prosecute the war on terror
McSame will do nothing different than George W. Bush has done for the last 7.5 years. He will continue to destroy what was once a great nation. You who think otherwise, are delusional.
At the risk of repeating myself...
The reason you constantly attack McCain is simple really...People who are inside of the Obama campaign can't specify their candidates policies so how could you?
What scares you is the fact that If you took both the candidates resumes, deleted the names and simply listed their accomplishments and experience, Obama would not be in the top ten never mind the top two.
New national polling data suggests that American voters are doing just that and the numbers do not bode well for the chosen one of the Democrat party. Perhaps you should delay the coronation for a little bit!
Have a great McDay!
Scott
arguments
Sorry, Scott. Just don't have the time. Bug someone else.
contributions
Wow. $450 bucks. Must be an Independent. (I'm the Peterborough GD)
Juzt Don't Have The Time....
Gee Scott,
I find that pompous and implying that he is not interested in debate, just pushing his narrow minded, closed ended agenda. This is what we have been talking about
I think you would agree, conservatives and libertarians rest their case. Like you, Scott, I will take on any progressive, any day on this blog and I will disprove their innuendo with facts....but.....there are no takers. I will take you on any day George, point for point; let me know when you want to start a discussion with facts, George!
Looks like we will just have to "Bug Someone Else"...that speaks volumes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
McCain has been around 35
McCain has been around 35 years longer than his opponent. I'd hope he'd accomplished something useful in that time, besides shady deals with the Lincoln Five, divorcing his invalid wife, chasing skirts, marrying a millionaire heiress, and playing maverick in Congress.
My Point Confirmed
You make my point.....
No facts, diversity of opinion, no civility.......just hit and run journalism.
Not a Rush Limbaugh fan but this is the equivalent of "drive by journalism"!
Whether you are a progressive who is a copywriter, direct marketing expert, business owner, laborer, retail specialist, lawyer, IT tech, nurse, ex-newspaper editor, doctor, auto salesman, politician, broadcast journalist or candlestick maker, etc......
This country will not heal until progressives are willing to discuss things in an open forum like this with FACTS versus just relying on talking points to make their case. Otherwise it speaks to agenda and doing that is propaganda.
I will not respond to your McCain accusations but will say that progressives are just as guilty. Just yesterday one of your poster boys admitted to doing a despicable thing under the worst of circumstances.
I now Understand...
You aren't looking to have a conversation, you simply want to make a speech.
My bad!
No doubt McCain has his faults...
But with the world as it is, I think I will support the guy with the 50 plus years of experience, warts and all. The world is too dangerous to elect a fellow that hasn't been around long enough to learn where all the exits are in his Senate office building...Just saying!
He's been around so long, he
He's been around so long, he should be put out to pasture. He doesn't have it anymore, and flip-flops like a fish in the bottom of a boat. The world is too dangerous to have this senile white-haired dude with his thumb on the "bomb." The failed policies of the last 8 years need to be replaced, and McShame won't be doing that. You're asking for a third Bush term which means more wars and more failures more debt and more death.
How could I have been so blind...
That stunning and well reasoned, articulate reply has led me to see the light!
OBAMA, OBAMA, OBAMA Oh dear I'm feeling faint...
Here's an idea...
Bill,
I'm thinking that anyone who responds to a post with an insult or a Mc talking point should here the sweet chirping sound of crickets as a response. Those that come forward with passionate, well thought out positions get my full attention and respect...What do you think?
Scott
You Know......
Scott,
If you look at the progressives who practice the hit and run diatribes, they are the generation of the 60's who, for over four generations, have held these core beliefs.
I know this how? Let's just say that you can find out many things about anyone. They are in the 60-75 age range and if you look at letter writers who do the same thing in the Monitor, it is the same story.
Beyond that though, they have waited and this is the best and probably the last shot for them to build their Utopian world with all of the social trappings and wondrous peace that will ensue.
For 40 years they have taken advantage of a system that they loathe and held on to their core beliefs. You have to admire that. Unfortunately, where they fall short is that long ago, they were not able to sell this far Left agenda so instead, they have clandestinely worked within the system.
You have to respect their persistence. For them to openly discuss their core beliefs and their core agenda, they would have no chance of success convincing Americans; few would want that agenda. Therefore, they have, through organizations like NH Peace Action, Think Progress, etc. pushed their agenda through spin, propaganda and innuendo. They do not want reasoned debate with discussion of facts. George could not be bothered, no matter how successful he has been in the free market and as a professional. That says alot.
For decades the press has leaned Left and there were no outlets. Now that we have Fox News, which is really fair and balanced, they are angry and excoriate a network that may at times lean more conservative but DOES give both sides. All they have to offer is negativity and bitter criticism. It is all telling.
You can be silent if you want...."Cricket", but at the end of the day I would not suggest it. We need to stay on message and practice this thing called politics like they do.....repeating the same things until people believe them.
In our case, the only difference would be that we will get the "FACTS" to the people; George and others will spew propaganda, hoping to stir the pot of dissent until their agenda is realized. No crickets, Scott.....please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No Worries
Good men cannot stand idly by while there is mischief about. But as my Grandmother once told me, argue with a fool and soon it will become next to impossible to tell the difference between you and the fool.
Yours in Progress,
Scott
Let's Talk.....
Scott,
Clay posted a note on challenging bloggers to debate. I think from here on in, we should just challenge the posts with good factual information and point out what we perceive as propaganda.
Clay is right that we should not scare away new bloggers......if they are unable or do not want to debate then we should just present the facts in concise form.
It is too bad that it needs to be that way but don't be discouraged by this turn. It is telling.
Keep up the good blogging.
B
much like a feeding frenzy
And this is why I don't mind reading different opinions, but refuse to actually jump into the fray. One has to be willing to participate in a crazed "fact down" and be a bottomless pit of "intellectual" knowledge to even consider attempting a "spirited debate". Reading this "debate" was much like watching my Oscar chase goldfish around the tank....
I know what you mean.
There are times I wonder why I bother to try and debate with these people. They remind me of those "no children left behind" who can only regurgitate what they've been taught to pass a test. They wouldn't know a fact if it hit them in the face. Generally, their positions are based on the greed and selfishness and the desire to resist paying their share.
I'm sure I'll get beat-up for stating that truth.
What are you talking about?
Michael,
What are you talking about......Your facts are from unreliable sources and your rhetoric is always......."greed and selfishness".
Here is a fact for you.....life is short and people just want to live their lives and enjoy their families and what they have. Change is good but constant change for special interests and having to be watchdogs to stop government from restricting our lives and taking our freedoms away makes life laborious.
At the end of the day, what I want is to live my life undisturbed. You folks are like the Trojan horse.......you bear watching as your goal is to redefine everything in your image and belief. It would sure be nice to have some peace.
It starts with Congress and in the last few years they have been given the name "lawmakers". I think we have enough "laws". What we need is a respite from agenda driven politics, corporate investment that creates good jobs and to just have political parties lay off of the citizens. Let people live their lives, be self determined and self reliant. Help those in need and those who need help.....stop trying to reorder society....that is where the argument comes in......................................
There will be no consensus until everyone involved relaxes and let's everyone live their lives and solve their own challenges.
Terri
I would tend to agree. Even facts mean little today as both sides challenge even 'in your face' facts.
You are an intelligent lady, do not sell yourself short, getting the facts is pretty easy as there are only a handful of "fact" sites out there. Factcheck.org, Snops and others are a good place to start. Also, government sites are good but you have to read and interpret the facts. Most of all, someone like yourself might be the catalyst that adds a viewpoint that pulls both sides together......you never know; so join in.
As I have stated through this string and many others, I have definite opinions but the only way anything will get solved is through consensus and give and take.
Read my last post and you will understand what I am in support op.....getting on with life and being left alone to live a free existence absent of someone dictating how I should do that.
I stated in the post that change is expected and good but constant change is annoying. Just let people live their very short life and stop focusing on reordering society in some utopian vision.
Capitalism works and if it falters, fix it.........life is too short to deal with this agenda...that is my main thrust. If we had to move every week or kept changing jobs every six months or could not depend on a stable relationship it would wear us down.
It is the same thing going on in politics........constant change breeds instability.
I know that my opinion is not shared by a majority (although neither is the other side in the majority), but I would be remiss if I did not at least stand up and make the case...to be complacent would breed a one sided agenda and constant change. We owe it to our families and children to make their lives a little more stable and not ever changing.
The fish analogy is accurate, very accurate
To each his own...
As I said, I enjoy the read. I am thankful there are people out there who delight, even become animated, in the fray. My oscar's colors become vivid and he is so much more animated and a joy to watch while he is feeding. I, however, know my place and liken it to the hapless goldfish. I usually resist jumping into the debate simply because I know I would be quickly sucked in and crushed by the more skillful, quick witted, polically savvy predetors that monitor the waters. I will cower behind the rock and learn from others daring exploits.
What ????
Generally, their positions are based on the greed and selfishness and the desire to resist paying their share.
This sentence implies we are not all paying our fair share already? So you think bigger goverment and higher taxes paid by us all is the answer? Please tell me how that will bring Utopia and positive "change" you believe in?
Judy, here's a very good
Judy, here's a very good example. We went to war in Iraq under false intelligence and lies, and instead of everyone having to make a sacrifice, we are paying for this war by charging it to your children and grandchildren while at the same time selling our country to China. Then we give tax breaks to the very rich.
I, for one, think this is immoral, and is based on selfishness and greed.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
Misinformation
Michael,
For one, Congress had the same intelligence, believed it and supported the invasion of Iraq......if Bush is guilty, so are they. Those are "facts".
What was the sacrifice that we took when we participated in Bosnia? What was the sacrifice when we send cruise missiles into aspirin factories? What are the sacrifices of Charlie Rangel when, on the taxpayer's dime, he gets the biggest ass cadillac during a fuel crisis.
I could go on all day but your rhetoric accomplishes nothing but cause further divide. The best way to insure that the economy is good for our children is to ease restrictions on business and industry that creates jobs. That is called CAPITALISM; the only system on Earth that strengthens economy.
We are selling our country to China because of labor unions that spur laziness and causes industry to look at an overseas workforce.
Tax breaks for the rich. Considering the top 10% of the population pays 90% of the income taxes, I do not see greed there.
Immoral refers to things like cheating on your wife, murdering a person, late term abortion, etc. It does not refer to your narrow definition of selfishness and greed.
What you and others call selfishness and greed is an infantile rant of jealousy....that is a "FACT". You want to be rich, make it happen; look at it as taking responsibility for yourself. It is far more refreshing than wasting time being envious of others....GEEEEESCH!
McCann, sadly, is only on McCann's side. Anything or anyone who will help him get elected is who McCann is for. Notice the recent Flip-Flop on off-shore drilling. Three weeks ago is was totally opposed; today, he is totally in support. He flip-flops more than Kerry, but we don't hear the MSM making an issue of it. Sometimes I wonder if it is just his age....can't remember from day to day what he believes and supports. But he is no friend on the military.