Truly Frightening
Whether or not the readers of this blog agree with my viewpoints or the viewpoints of others, it is critical that informed voters on both sides of the debate concerning the future course of governance of this country, search out knowledge and are aware of just how important their vote will be in 2008.
Lately, I have received hate mail from Monitor supporters and it reinforces my belief that those who preach all of the politically correct behaviors as defined in their vision of the "ideal' world, seldom practice what they preach. To take disagreement to a personal level is just ignorant and speaks to these individuals inability to intelligently address viewpoints absent of doctrinaire thought. If you are unable to understand other viewpoints and are only able to address them with unrelated and uninformed personally destructive critique, then you have no right to comment at all.
I take time each day to read opinions on many websites, listen to Air America and watch FSTV and LINK. Seldom do I agree with most of the points made, but I feel as if I owe it to myself, the process and the debate to try to understand the other side.
Over the holiday I was home for a long stretch and one day tuned into FSTV. There were several stories that I sat back and watched and attempted to keep on open mind about. Some of the debate and critique made partial sense but at the end of the day it came back to basically a "Bush Bash" festival.
I sat through Democracy Now!, an extreme broadcast that presents only one viewpoint while criticizing mainstream media for doing the same. Then later on that day I watched the Asheville Global Report, delivered by two college amateurs, offering a conspiratorial spin to the news as they hardly blink while unemotionally regurgitating propagandist talking points in robotic fashion.
Then, one of the most propagandist programs on that network came on the screen...Liberty TV News out of Portland, Maine.
Liberty TV, in its original form was reminiscent of old Soviet propaganda broadcasts where a stoic newscaster touts the party line. It has now been transformed into what they call more “entertaining satire and news”.
I found their satire to be 10 times more insidious than anything you would hear even on conservative talk radio or Air America, but the highlight of their show was a documentary called PAX America 2031. It was humorous to me as the level of conspiracy was far beyond what even the John Birch Society could ever dream up but the message was disturbing as well. I found it hard to believe that people exist that believe and produce propaganda like this, much less that there is an audience.
This short film talked about "corporate facism" linked with Wal-Mart and stated that Obama and Clinton had “the smell of blood on their hands". Then, the narrator states that one man spoke out and came to the rescue...Dennis Kucinich!
This fictional documentary paints a scenario of martial law where the 2008 elections are put on hold and both Clinton and Obama go along while "one man"...Dennis Kucinich leads a revolt. Heck, even Oprah Winfrey is gunned down protesting...which...according to the narrator....gives the people the will to overthrow the government. Hillary is shown as "Hillary Clinton 1947-2015". All in all, it illustrates just how twisted the ‘far Left’ really is and how out of touch with reality these cultists are.
There should be little doubt that those who condemn the ‘religious Right’ are oblivious that organizations like this abound on the Left and are the close cousins to groups like MoveOn.org.
For those who are wondering just what is at stake in saving our Democracy and adding sanity to the divide in this country, here is the address for the website where you can watch this schizophrenic example of opinion and so called "free" speech.
To think that people like those who produced this piece of garbage might have access to the White House during a Democratic administration is truly frightening. Let’s hope that moderate Democrats take back their party and exile the far Left zealots to their rightful place in obscurity!
Sources Are Funny Things.....We Need To Prove Their Validity
Well Michael, this list comes from many extremist websites and I will answer these points one by one. Unfortunately, Daily KOS is not a legitimate, factual site. This list is a tailored analysis that attempts to compare Fascism to what some progressives think is going on today.
There is not worry about Fascism taking hold in the United States as the other countries in which this list was based upon were not democracies in the same way we are today.
When Musharoff claimed martial law in Pakistan, progressives were all over it. Now that Chavez is trying to become dictator for life in Venezuela, they are silent. That illustrates the hypocrisy of the Left.
I found this list of 14 characteristics of fascism in a piece from Laurence Britt, who is not surprisingly, a ‘secular humanist’ and this was posted on a 'secular humanist' website (a website with an agenda). At the end of the day, any wacko zealot on either side of the political spectrum can come up with any list they want and publish it as fact on an extremist website. That does not make it fact or true. I will answer each point below.
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. I guess that makes Francis Scott Key a facist or the founding fathers or World War II veterans? I don’t see pictures of leaders on billboards, flags on every corner, etc. Hugo Chavez and Castro, do act in this way……two regimes that are embraced by the Left.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. It is only happening in GITMO and it is propaganda that the torture is that insidious. I do not agree with water boarding but the rest is not torture in the sense of the word that the Japanese used in World War II (i.e. bamboo under fingernails). Now if we knew there was a nuclear bomb ready to go off in Boston and the only way we could stop if was to torture the Islamist who planted it…would you be in favor then?????
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. We should be rallied as the Islamic threat is real. And we still can not profile. Instead, little old ladies in wheelchairs are screened while others are let through. After all, we would not want to offend anyone. This point is an excuse to get us all killed. None of the other groups above are being frenzied. I guess your side forgot about the fictional “vast right wing conspiracy”
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. Ben and Jerry live in this one. The military is our only defense. If peace activists had their way during World War II, we would be speaking German and goose stepping today. I would agree no more nuclear development but if you want to cut spending, allow the development of a defense shield so that nothing can get through. Then spend on your social feel good programs. Some people think that if we just talk with people, peace will triumph….it has never worked anywhere in history. Now, in precarious times, the LEFT wants to fiddle while Rome burns!
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
History has not shown this…but…isn’t allowing schools to hand out condoms and birth control the state acting as the guardian of family institutions?????
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. So the LEFT wants the ‘fairness doctrine” that makes them Fascist? You can’t have it both ways.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. Fear you say. What about the feat the the Democrats spread about the economy, the fear they have played on with health care, the fear that we are losing in Iraq. Even Murtha is backing down on that.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. Religion has never been intertwined LESS than it is now..so what is the paranoia????? You folks have done a nice job of destroying belief and society in an attempt to make government the religion of the 21st century... Sounds like Facism to me!!!!!!
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. Terry McCauliffe and his investments, Mark Rich pardoned, Clintons invested in Wal-Mart….on and on….it has been that way for years and is nothing new to be concerned about.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. Hasn’t happened here and the unions are their own worst enemies….steel, auto, etc. Jobs are outsourced because organized labor and labor leaders priced themselves out of the market. The only place left for labor is in the service industries. Labor unions have caused their own decline due to GREED! Ford, GM, Chrysler, etc.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. Education is not the end all and be all. Professors are 90% socialist none are censored…Ward Churchill held on for a long time and lied, hated, etc. The arts…art is relevant…Robert Mapplethorpe, using feces as art….that is not art, it is one persons interpretation of what they think art should be. It is more expression of opinion than art.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations. Believe it or not I agree that there is too much of a national cooperative effort in enforcement. States rights should trump this. National ID cards are a bad idea and police as tasering too many people lately. I dislike the MACHO culture of even local officers…it is so false.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. Democrats and Republicans, it is all the same. Putin rules that way as do most leaders. No one has stolen national treasures here…geesch stop reading the wacko sites.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. Again, a myth that any election was stolen. Gore points to certain votes but blocked the military vote that would have resulted in 8000 more votes in FLA for Bush in 2000. Many newspapers have done the research…Gore lost.
Ohio in 2004 was a scam of an excuse that it was stolen. Can we talk about leaving the polls open later to get a victory against Ashcroft. What about Chicago or dead people voting Democratic.
Did Gore go to the Florida Supreme Court??? Have the Democrats ever used the courts????
Basically, this kind of list is as much fear mongering as what it purports to expose on the other side. Once again, I go to all sites and read everything. You have to take each site and analyze it’s validity. Because some intellectually, self importantly enlightened egg head comes up with this crap does not make it fact.
If you want, I can give you a list of 14 things that point to the fact that the Left is hell bent on taking us down a Socialist path.
That you can't see this list
That you can't see this list describing the America we live into today, says a great deal about where your head is, Bill. You need to pull it out of the sand and take a real look around, my friend.
We Are Still The Best Country In The World
I DO NOT see a conspiracy around every corner. That is tantamount to belonging to the John Birch Society.
This may be your antithesis of the "dreamscape" that you envision that we all should be living in but things are not as insidious as this list makes them seem.
The 14 points were crafted by a person who's view of the world is absent of religions.
Just some facts...when a dictator or country goes communistic they attack the following:
1) Religion (discredit any belief except in the state as your cradle to grave nanny)
2) Divide children and parents (parental notification, birth control, abortions, teaching theories like global warming, evolution, political correctness (proper thought))
3) Restrict the press (fairness doctrine)
4) Divide the population (diversity, political correctness, creating class envy)
5) Take control of social institutions (education, health care, economy, corporations)
6) Push "social justice" (everyone shares equally no matter their contribution)
7) Stack the political deck so that they win every time (uncontrolled influx of illegals that will vote for Left leaning candidates)
Sounds like the progressive agenda to me. You sir are in denial but I do not blame the dupes they use through emotionally convincing rhetoric...but I do blame the politicians. Guess what, they want the same power that you accuse Bush of wanting...HMMMM..seem hypocritical to me.
When Hilary is elected, we
When Hilary is elected, we will once again be a great country. But as long as Bush and his incompetent, corrupt cronies are running things, we are nothing to be proud of.
IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY
If Hillary is elected
If Hillary is elected she will be there for one reason...THE POWER.
Bear in mind that the shenanigans of the Democrat party over the last 8 years concerning IMPEACHMENT will come around to roost on Hillary's doorstep. What goes around comes around...everyone will be watching and waiting for her expected many faux paux's.
It would be entertaining to watch and give many of us a platform on which to write. It will also be enjoyable to watch the letter writer expose their hypocrisy as Clinton faces the reality that her campaign promises and doctrine will be second to the needs of the country.
It is unbelievable that many letter writers support her just because she is a "woman" as their first criteria. Kind of shallow I would say. What if I wrote that I supported a candidate because they were a man. The outcry and name calling and personal attacks would abound. That is the problem with the Left!
If Democrats were on the ball and not enamored by rhetoric and emotional blindness, they would take a second look at Biden or Richardson...they are truly the most experienced candidates.
Remember, Clinton will have to represent the other 50% of the population. Monitor readers and letter writers should embrace the need for 'power sharing' as they did in 2000 and 2004 and should admit that there is not a 'mandate' as they implied there wasn't in 2000 and 2004. It will be interesting to watch these enlightened and principled individuals twist in the wind.
It is too bad that there is this divide but once again it is all caused by politicians and doctrinaire beliefs. By the way Mike, I have not decided who I will vote for. It won't be Hillary.
We need a uniter, not a divider...there are not too many of those out there on either side.
I knew that Hilary would
I knew that Hilary would raise the hair on the back of your neck. I actually think Richardson would be the best candidate for the nation. He has the most experience and I believe desires the office because he feels he can bring strength and respect to it...something it doesn't have at this time.
Some Agreement
On your side of the debate...yes he is the best.
On the Republican side I am close to a decision but not quite.
Republican or Democrat isn't the issue.....
Well Bill,
Our country is in very serious trouble and whether we elect a Democrat, a Republican, or an Independent, is not going to make any difference. What this country needs is an "Extreme Makeover"!! We need to vote OUT anyone who is incumbent and start over fresh. Regardless of party affiliation.
I have been a registered Democrat in this state for over 35 years, but I never have and never will vote along party lines. I always vote for the person that I feel will do the best job. Not for me personally, but for the country as a whole.
Bush and Cheney are both nothing less than War Criminals and should not only be impeached, but prosecuted and put in prison for the rest of their worthless lives!! Clinton (who I didn't like) was impeached for having sex in the Oval office and lying to the American people about it. Not a crime, just immoral, but he was impeached after the Republicans went on a ruthless and relentless "witch hunt". Any man who cheated on his wife would lie about it initially. Who did he hurt or injure by his actions other than his own family? Did anybody die? No. Did anyone get crippled for life? No.
Now, we have a President and Vice President that have done nothing BUT lie to the American people for the past 7 years. They have caused the death of THOUSANDS of our young men and women as a DIRECT result of their lies!! We have tens of thousands more that are mamed and crippled for the rest of their lives. Then there are the families of the dead and crippled. They will suffer for the rest of their lives as well. Have you lost count yet Bill? I have.
Lets not even get into what they have done to our basic rights as citizens of this country. We will save that for another day.
So where are all of the "do good" politicians, of all parties, that impeached Clinton. Where are they now? Why aren't they rushing around getting together Articles of Impeachment to get these two WAR CRIMINALS out of office and into prison where they belong?
Bush is without a doubt the absolutely worst President in American history, and the history books will reflect that long after you and I are gone and forgotten. This isn't just the opinion of one wacko, it is the general consensus of 70% of the American people.
I'm afraid Bill, that how we vote in the next election won't make any difference at all. We need to clean house and I don't see that happening. We are just going to elect more of the same into office. It is no longer "By The People, For The People" any longer. It is "By the politicians, for the politicians" and nothing more.
You can put a pretty new paint job on an old beat up Chevy Vega and make it look like new, but underneath, it is still the same old wreck...........
From my little corner of the world.............
AGREED
Don,
Thanks for the response and I agree except that a major makeover should not include a different economic model.
However, you should open your mind to TERM LIMITS. TERM LIMITS are the only way to clean house.
Voters think that you have to be a lawyer to go to Washington. I would start there and continue to elect common people on a short leash limiting representatives to two terms and senators to one. That constant change would clean up the sewer.
I do not subscribe to war criminals as I feel that we need to defend this country at any cost. We should have the strongest military in the world, work to perfect missle defense, stop giving aid to countries who hate us and keep to ourselves and out of others business. Stop illegal immigration and know who is here.
You are right though that politicians would never have the guts to do all of that.
I am not a Bush supporter but Kerry or Gore would have been an appeasement disaster after 9/11. Diplomacy does not work and has never worked. We need to mind our own business and let the rest of the world know that is what we are going to do but if they attack us...we will wipe them off the face of the planet.....
I am sick of the mamby pamby on both sides that string us along. I agree in principle but I doubt in method.
You could support
You could support Richardson. The republicans have no one worth wasting a vote on.
Not Necessarily True
You might be surprised.
Read MIke Prides Column today.....
You might be surprised
Veritas
Bill, me thinks you're being to harsh on Amy Goodman and Democracy Now, she's a Harvard Grad, has a long history of fighting for our rights and our Constitution, she's one of the few Press voices out there giving us something other than corporate propaganda, she and her show are anything but extreme. Have you read her books? I challenge you to find one thing on Democracy Now that is extreme? Have you read Chomsky?
America is a Democracy yet that doesn't mean we don't have to nurture and fight for our Democracy every day, people like Amy Goodman and the Code Pink women and Liberty TV are doing that. Torture is not an American value, killing millions in Iraq (over a third children under 12), not for self defense but for oil, is not what this country is about.
You demean Kucinich but he is the only candidate who had the guts to say NO to the invasion of Iraq when it was highly unpopular and who has the guts today to impeach Cheney. I don't see Clinton or Obama moving to impeach Cheney.
Every one knows Cheney is a war criminal, started a war to make Halliburton rich, did you know Halliburton moved their HQ to Dubai! I'm sure he had something to do with 9/11 those buildings came down with explosives, even the 9/11 commission report can't find a reasonable explanation for WTC building 7 which was obviously a demolition. Why isn't the corporate media all over this? This is really strange?
Cheney is a traitor to this country and should be impeached and in prison along with Bush for crimes against Humanity, war crimes and crimes against our Constitution, not to mention Valerie Plame.
Our country may not yet be totally fascist on the inside but it certainly is on the outside and that is what the rest of the World sees. Our torture camps in Guantanamo and Abu Graib were not much different than Hitler's concentration camps, sure they're better now, but for awhile they were really horrible. They are better now because of the pictures getting out, imagine what could be going on still today if the military was able to control the pictures, doesn't that tell you anything?
I'm sure you're a nice guy Bill but please wake up and stop being afraid of the truth, Chomsky and Amy Goodman are the truth you know in your heart they are right but you like so many Americans don't want to face the truth cause its hard to accept that your Government can do such horrible things.
Cheney is a traitor to America and so is Bush and they should both be in prison, until we do that, this country's soul will remain stained. Republicans have one choice this very important election and that is Ron Paul. Democrats have a good field to choose from for once but the best by far is Kucinich, he's a proven, his record is impeccable, he's tough and wise, what a great President he would make!!! Edwards, Obama, Clinton, Biden, Dobbs, Gravel, Richardson would all be fine yet they all have flaws, Kucinich is almost perfect in Integrity, Courage, Wisdom, Leadership...so what if he's not so tall and telegenic, he's what this country needs to be strong, not only economically but morally, Strength through Peace make so much sense. As for the terrorism , I'm sure if we stop our terrorism they will stop theirs, yet we started the terrorism so we need to lead in stopping our terrorism, then no one will attack us, we should not be afraid just strong AND moral. We need to take back the moral high ground we were starting to take it back so than they killed JFK, MLK and Bobby Kennedy, Kucinich is the new Bobby Kennedy maybe even better! Don't give up the fight!
You see Bill, I"m not alone
You see Bill, I"m not alone in how I see the world. About 70 percent of Americans see it the way I do. You are in the minority, boy. Pull your head out of the sand and smell the coffee, as they say.
Everyone Knows?
Amy Goodman being a Harvard graduate means nothing. Harvard is irrelevent and Goodman is s shill for the Socialist party. Her demeanor is no different than that of O'Reilly. Noam Chomsky is a self important socialist as well.
"Everyone knows".....everyone who is a leftist zealot knows what the those who spread propaganda wants them to know. Cheney did not start the war for Haliburton's benefit and I'd be willing to bet that you think that 9/11 was an inside job too? Oh yes...re-reading this I see that you do!
Let's see, Clinton gave secrets away to China and Patrick Lahey made public state secrets...they must be traitors as well.
Wasn't Kucinich the failed boy mayor????? Due to social spending???????
I bet that we started the terrorism because of our consumerism, right???? They resent us because we have too much and do not share with them, right???? It couldn't be because we are industrious and they live in the 12trh century or because we consistently dole out millions which the third world uses and then resents us.
I listen to FSTV and LINK all of the time and I can tell you...it is all propaganda garbage from a movement that wants Socialism and to enslave the masses.
Valerie Plame was not an undercover agent and has taken every opportunity to turn her so called tragedy into celebrity. That was a setup from the start. She was out in social circles and everyone knew in Washington that she worked for the CIA. James Bond, she was not! Her husband has been caught in numerous lies about what he found and that is hardly reported.
One thing for sure...I have to admire just how well you have been indoctrinated by the leftist propaganda offered by those who live for the resurrection of Karl Marx. It is reminiscent of the fervor with which Germans followed and believed in Hitler in the 1940's. As expected the radical Left follows charismatic leaders and only believes it's own information without regard for any of the facts.
Enjoy your next Bioneers meeting. By the way Democracy Now!, FSTV and LINK are "corporations"; the evil institution that you on the Left seem to despise. They do not share their profits equally and Amy Goodman makes the largest paycheck of anyone working at Democracy Now! I think that if she was interested in practicing what she preaches...she would take no more of a check than the janitor cleaning the rest rooms. Hypocrisy...Hell YES!
Maybe her broadcast should be called the "War and MY Piece of the Action" report!!!!
Amy Goodman is to the Left what the John Birch Society was to the Right 30 years ago. Schizophrenic hysteria and fear mongering.
Everyone Knows??????? GEEESH!
70%%%%??????
Michael,
70% of the population has an issue one way or another with Iraq but they are not, nor are you a conspiracy theorist. I do not think you would believe in some of these crack pot conspiracies.
Listen, Concord is the Berkeley, Boulder and Cambridge of the North. Liberals and progressives have gravitated towards NH and especially Concord. If it keeps on going we might as well join with Vermont and become one state. I would expect no less than this kind of opinion from Monitor readers and writers.
In travelling, I can tell you that there a 'pockets' of political though like this but most people are moderate and a recent news story that I heard stated that 65% of the voters are moderate. The left and Right are about 50%:50% in numbers. If everyone thinks like those who watch FSTV we would have no country left...right now it would be over!!!!!
B
I, for one, never heard of
I, for one, never heard of FSTV or LINK until I read your blog this weekend. And all the name calling...I didn't think you liked that, Bill. I guess you're as guilty as the next guy when it comes to using "trigger words". I haven't called you a bigot in weeks!!!! Right wing fascist, well maybe.
Oh, I do think the war in Iraq was started for the international oil companies and corporations which control this White House, and there have been many of the Bush/Cheney Crime Families who have made millions from this war, while our young people are dying in vain.
Name Calling??????
A Socialist is a Socialist.....why can't people like this lady just admit it. Tell us how she wants everyone to have the same posessions, wages, jobs and live in utopia. Trigger words that describe hidden agenda are OK to use on both sides.
This writer describes herself as a "soccer mom". I imagine she is not in favor of keeping score, that might make the children feel bad and ruin their self esteem.
Amy Goodman is a despicable shill of the Left. No name calling...FACT.
I am not for personal attacks based on perceived facts about a persons history or character or accomplishments. For instance if I said: "Michael Evans was a person who was wealthy through means where he cheated his children of education to save money for himself", all of which would be first hand character assassination of you and all of which is not true but you get my point.
If you are in the public eye as an elected official or Noam Chomsky or one of those zealots...I will attack as their points are assinine.
Their points are
Their points are assine....to YOU. But not to everyone. Just image what a mean world we'd be living in if we all thought like YOU.
Discussion
OK Michael,
Not to belabor the point but let's take a look at the Left.
They complain about established institutions (churches, etc), yet they want to establish institutions in which they believe.
The person who wrote above believes that the World Trade Center was a demolition job and sees a conspiracy around every corner. If the Right does that the Left refers to them as WACKOS!!! Where is the disdain of the real Left on people within their ranks for this kind of zaniness?
They want to tell you what is best for YOUR child, what they should believe, what you should think and how you should speak, what you should eat, what you should drive, what you should spend, what you can and can say and have for an opinion. And you are worried about facism and Republicans... Wake up Mike!!!!
The Left wants to tell us what to believe, they will not take Global Warming for anything BUT fact with no debate, they overlook scandals in the Democrat party but excoriate the Republican party for the same things.
My point is that this is not a right or left or wrong issue...it is about fundamental change in society and extremists want to turn the country upside down on a whim that their Utopian ideas will work. They want universal health care and deny that it has failed everywhere else but pursue it as they want it...no matter the results.
Bridflewover touts Amy Goodman, Chomsky, etc. as people who protect our right to free speech... She means HER right to speak HER view...she cares nothing about my right, your right or some strangers right...just about her platform to express what she believes. That is not free speech, it is propaganda. Democracy NOW! doe not allow dissenting opinion to theirs...how is that free speech.
The change they want IS Socialism...Chomsky is a SOCIALIST. They see conspiracy around every corner and over react to every single thing that those who stand in the way of Socialism are doing to stop it.
Not even 50% of the population feel this way. You have excoriated Christians and believers but what is the difference. The religion of these zealots is SOCIALISM and so called "Social Justice", a code word for it. Secular humanism is a RELIGION...like it or not!
This debate is over whether we live in a Capitalist or Socialist country. I envision the day when you will have to ask permission to drive from Warner to Concord and some bureaucrat will say..."I don't think so, not today". Is that the kind of world you want to live in.....call me mean but we spend so much time fighting with discontents that we hardly have enough time to enjoy our lives.
Bill's World
You don't believe in diplomacy. You say it's never worked. Would you like to see the Diplomatic Corps abolished or just diplomacy itself? That diplomacy has never worked is an absurd statement. That "Valerie Plame was not an undercover agent" is an old and officially debunked myth. Bill, these quotes are from Wikipedia and are all sourced (govt documents and court records) and available for all to check: [...]"official legal documents published in the course of the CIA leak grand jury investigation, United States v. Libby, and Congressional investigations fully establish her classified employment as a covert officer for the CIA"[...]. [...] "It is documented that she worked for the CIA in a clandestine capacity relating to counter-proliferation."[...]
The counter-proliferation work she and the CIA were doing [was] important Bill, and it was carelessly ruined by the Vice President and others inside and outside of the administration. All those years of work by the CIA ruined and lives of those involved endangered for petty political reasons. Just because her husband embarrassed the White House by exposing the fact that their claims about Niger and yellowcake uranium were unfounded.
I won't sit idly by and let you lie about honorable Americans like Valerie Plame Wilson and her husband Joe.
Of course in your mind I think you somehow believe what you're saying, and I fully expect you to somehow validate your belief here in further comments. But like so many of your comments it's fallacy. Somehow it's "Truly Frightening" what some groups on the far left are saying and doing, but you ignore what the current President and his administration have done over the past seven years. Total ineptitude everywhere you look. Lying to the American people. Tax breaks for the richest and cutting funds for the most needy. No-bid contracts and government positions for those who helped get him elected, family friends, and business associates. Spying on innocent Americans and lying about it, saying that they're just listening in on terrorism suspects when they were actually trapping every phone call, every email, every text message, etc. going through their NSA 'secret rooms' enabled by 'splitters' at AT&T.
I see some of the same inane arguments made by other members of the twenty-four percent club who just can't (or won't) accept the truth of what's actually happening to this country, but over the past year or so some of them have gradually accepted reality. The ones that still cling to the fallacy you espouse so fervently in your blog here are the hard core. Nothing is going to change your minds and that's just the way it is.
I have hesitated leaving comments to your blog posts because it's pointless. I'll bet that others feel the same. You seem to live to reply to the comments people leave, fervently defending your beliefs as you most certainly will in this case. But I have faith that the vast majority of readers are intelligent and aware enough to read statements like yours claiming that "diplomacy doesn't work", and "Valerie Plame wasn't an undercover agent", and all the other absurd statements, and see that you're living in your own separate reality.
What's "Truly Frightening" to me is that someone as incompetent as George Bush has become President, continues to flout the constitution he swore to uphold, and still has his job.
Don't let words scare you
Poor Bill, you're so scared of Socialism, you know France is socialist, so is Germany, so is Iceland and Norway and most of Europe. They don't seem to be doing to bad to me, the Euro is quite strong could replace our dollar, their air and water is cleaner than ours and their food, ooh la la, so much better. Why is that in your opinion Bill? Socialism. You know Bill even the USA was socialist before Reagan started the chipping away at our socialist system, Bush practically destroyed it and Romney or Guiliani will finish the job if either one gets elected.
When JFK was President did you know that the USA was the most SOCIALIST country on the planet, even more so than France! If Kennedy would have run for office in France he would have won, despite the fact that he was not French, he was that popular. The USA was the most popular country in the World when we were socialist, now look where we are...we are now known around the World for Torture, Concentration Camps, giving up our Constitutional rights (the Constitution of America is a Socialist document by the way). You confuse socialism with communism Bill, like so many Americans because you apparently don't read America's greatest intellectual, MIT professor emeritus, Noam Chomsky or similar.
You know Bill you should not be so scared of words, they're just words, socialism is a word that means equitable distribution of natural resources, unions, universal healthcare, minimum wage, vacation time, etc., it also means freedom, freedom from getting thrown in jail if you protest a war, freedom to start your own company and to keep your profits as long as you do your business ethically, freedom to do what ever you want as long as you don't hurt your neighbor. Did you know the pollution from your huge car hurts your neighbor's children with its toxic fumes, that's why we need a minimum of regulation. Socialism is free education, in Europe even higher education is free not just grade school and high school. Why can they do it Bill and not us. Because they voted in "socialist" leaders most of the time that's why!
Socialism is the answer to climate change, you know Bill I've made a lot of money investing in socialist companies like Google and First Solar, there is another way. Even GE is starting to become socialist because they see the writing on the wall, socialism works, it works better than savage unregulated capitalism, like in China. Sure China is booming, yet their children are working 14 hour days in factories like slaves and their cities are some of the most polluted on earth, their food and water is becoming highly toxic, is that what you want Bill for your grandchildren. Socialism is balance. You give the freedom to make a profit but not at the expense of the society as a whole. The US was the first truly socialist country in the World, now the European are doing a much better job of it than we are because greedy corporate CEOs , who don't create businesses, but exploit the ones already created, have convinced naive people to believe that "socialism" is dangerous. It is not dangerous it is just another word for "common sense" and "ethical government".
Let's face it people, the only way we are going to stop climate change is to start with ourselves, consumption leads production, Example: If instead of feeding your family meat 5 times a week looking for the best buy, which means factory meat where the animals are tortured, buy free range meat 1 or 2 times per week where the animals are treated well. This will cost about the same, only you will have high quality meat which tastes much better and is better for you and the animals, the same goes for every kind of food, buy only organic, free range, biodynamic etc. The same goes for cars, electricity, soap, cleaning fluids, clothes.... The more we buy from the "good" producers and the less we buy from the "bad" the more our society changes for the better, it's the only way.
Problem is, today, production leads consumption, (not the inverse) we are brainwashed into buying what they want us to buy through ego manipulation techniques, called advertizing, not what we really want and need which is actually not that much for most of us.
Ego is the antithesis of self-confidence, when one is low on self-confidence one has to be high on ego in order to compensate emotionally. Example a high self confidence person who works on Wall Street will ride a bike to work in suit and tie ,even though it may look silly to colleagues, a high ego person needs a ferrari or porsche, even though the guy on a bike in New York can get to work much faster than the guy with a porsche because of traffic, this goes for most cities in America. Yet once the "good" trend grows, it becomes more "cool" to ride a bike than buy a porsche, bike sales go up, porsche sale go down, clean air goes up, pollution goes down! We need to teach all around us that we can all be leaders, lead with your purse or wallet, they have to follow us then.
Voting is the same thing as consumption don't vote for advertized "security" "fear" which finances war, guns and violence, vote for "morality" "justice" "freedom"...for example the "Immigrant" is the new "Jew" of Nazi Germany, we want to blame all our problems now on the "immigrants" just like the Nazis blamed all their problems on the "jews"...it works because most people are low on self-confidence and high on ego. Goebbles knew this, Rove knows this too. We must fight this "immigrant" hysteria before it gets too far along, watch, soon we'll have an attack on something in America by a Mexican immigrant, another 9/11 type staged event by the "blackwater cia", the media will scare us all into thinking all immigrants are dangerous and the persecutions will begin, we will lose all our rights, just like in Germany under Hitler...if Guiliani wins that is exactly what will happen, he is the designated successor to Bush to finish the job!
"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country" ...consume intelligently and
Vote Kucinich! Spread the word he can win! At least lets get his pole numbers up as high as possible to make a point, if not in 2008 maybe later! We need his voice heard as much as possible.
Very Revealing
No, we were not Socialist under JFK. JFK was for tax cuts and his politics were RIGHT of most politicians today.
I am glad though, that you admitted that you are a Socialist. Unfortunately, Socialists are all about "control" and telling people what to do.
No rational human being wants to ruin the environment, etc. but why must every approach to that issue be a sacrificial, economy busting hysterical one?
You say EGO. It is obvious that your EGO makes you think that you know best about everything in your wtiting. Especially about how one should live and think and eat and drink and share and give and move about, etc.
Unfortunately, even if your brand of Socialism prevails, it will turn into a Soviet style system over night. Under Socailism, I would not be allowed to have an opinion; not unless it matched that of the STATE. Once in place, it would never be able to be controlled and would be dictatorial. At that point you would suffer with the rest of us.
You mention France for example. Yes, there is almost 100% employment at minimum wage jobs. The health care system is failing as bureaucrats decide when you have lived long enough and life saving treatment is not economical. Most people work in shops and low paying jobs and they can not afford homes; instead renting and living in cramped apartments. Germany fare better but their health system is failing as well and care take 4 months, even in life threatening cases. Ireland...I have traveled there and know first hand that 80% of the population is low wage as compared to the United States. And Iceland is not a good comparison due to the size of the population. I will admit that I know nothing about their health care system.
Curencies rise and fall so I am not worried about the Euro.
Socialism means..."We are going to take more from you, even though you ahve worked your ass off to earn it and give it to other people to make their quality of life equal to yours". It breeds mediocrity as human beings lose their drive to excel and to personally thrive. It makes everyone poor but the politicians.
You and your ilk are a dangerous lot. I was sure that when you mentioned Chomsky that your true agenda was that of a Socialist.
Free Speech TV and Democracy Now! are not free speech outlets. If they were, they would present both sides with no emotional bias towards either one. They don't even present both sides...at least main stream media does that.
Your reply previous stated that we need to do away with networks like FOX and have more like Democracy NOW!. I am not a FOX fan but I can tell you that FOX is not as much to the RIGHT as Democracy Now! is to the Left. Not by a long shot.
Soccer Mom???? I think not! Indoctrinated weak minded follower...I thin so!
It is human nature to try to control others. Today we are not controlled (or if we are it is not insidious) but in your world you would be. The bottom line is that you have the right to believe what you want and I respect that but you should listen to your conspiratorial rhetoric...it is truly revealing and is embraced by a minority.
I listened to Kucinich on NPR yesterday. If any voter out there supports open borders, no immigration policy, unbridled union growth and a failed economic plan then by all means...vote Kucinich.
Tax cuts are socialist
Poor poor Bill, don't get so worked up, and don't be so afraid of something you know nothing about obviously. First of all France was ranked by the WHO as have the best health care system in the World, number 1, we were number 38 I believe, not too bad but we could do better. The minimimum wage is 3 times that of the US and everyone has mandatory 5 weeks paid vacation, many have only a 35 hour work week, and when you lose your job you get 80% of your net salary for up to 5 years! How do they do it? Socialism is so bad in France, that internet and telephone communications are practically free including international calls to almost every country in the World for everyone. Energy is already very green, 80% of France's energy is nuclear now they're going wind and solar for the rest and will slowly bring down the nuclear component. Sounds good to me. Germany is the same as France practically politically and socially. 50% of the food production in France is organic and biodynamic and they don't have hormone injected beef and genetically modified vegetables and grains. How do they do it? Why can't we do it too? They don't seem any less free to me, their newspapers critize the Government all the time, their television looks much like Democracy Now, they even have Al Jazeera channel which we deny. They're not afraid of looking at other viewpoints or opposing propaganda, their masses are well educated and can judge for themselves like adults!
Nobody is in jail for smoking a joint in Europe, in the US we have thousands in prison for doing nothing more than smoking a joint, and in France marijuana is still illegal, only in Holland is it legal. To me that is Freedom even though I don't smoke. Their crime rates are way below ours, you are safe anywhere in Europe, in America you never know who is going to shoot you if you raise your voice to loud, or say the wrong thing, is that freedom? The tax rates in France, even the corporate rates a lower than they are in America, fact, check it out, by 2%, how do they do it and still pay for all those benefits, their debt is much lower than our by comparison??
Socialists believe income should not be taxed at all, 0% taxes on income, even for the rich, for everyone. You know that it is illegal under the Constitution to tax income, the IRS is a fraud. You know why we have an IRS to collect taxes for WAR!
In a socialist society only corruption and pollution would be taxed and believe me if we taxed only those two things it would far out weigh what we collect in income taxes. This is what our socialist founding fathers believed.
Socialism has been around in Europe for over 30 years and they have not yet become communist, communism is tyranny, Europeans don't want tyranny any more than you or I, cmon Bill get real, your arguments are really spurious Bill, the facts are the facts, you still spew out the propaganda the corporate elite want you to believe so they can continue suck your tax dollars from our national treasury, pay themselves enormous salaries and move their production to slave wage countries. Thanks to people like you Bill they can do it. So keep up the Good work Bill, I'm sure the Republican party pays you well for your efforts, if not you're a real chump, sorry to say that but if you're not getting paid to say stuff like universal health care is communist then why do you do it, unless you're a chump? Wouldn't you like 5 weeks paid vacation, free higher education for your kids, etc?? If that is socialism my God I want socialism. That is why I'm voting Kucinich, who are you voting for? Too afraid to say??
birdflewover The Cuckoo's Nest
I do know much about this subject and no matter how you flower it up...Socialism does not allow debate or dicusssion.
In France the wages are three times ours from the minimum wage standpoint but comparative rents are three times as much. They get 5 weeks vacation and they also get 80% if they lose their jobs. They are the laziest individuals I have had the opportunity to meet and who pays for that????? Not income tax but taxes in other ways.
I can tell you that I am not interested in support other people beyond my family, through my hard work or efforts. I will help those in need but I am not into the glorification of communal or urban living. I do not support 'public transportation', just take a look at the "T".
France is a poor example for a country. It is one who can not defend itself, is overrun by the Arabic world with deadly protests in the slums of Paris and we have had to pull their butt out of the fire numerous times in history.
Your assertion that everything is free is either a smoke screen or you are tgruly out of touch with reality.
I am in Detroit right now and they are hurting badly. Why? Because labor unions have decimated the auto industry. Companies do not want to move into this are because they can not afford to nor can they deal with organized labor. Their leaders earn as much if not more than CEO's.
You seem to be well educated in books but certainly do not have a real view from travelling the United States and seeing the success of capitalism for yourself. Somehing I do each week and I can tel you that more industrious countries will overrun France and Holland once they have the opportunity.
The argument for peace and not getting involved is an exact duplicate of the doctrine preceding World War II. If we had listened to what were called 'progressives', today we would in reality be living under Fascism. YOU would not have the right to think as you do and would be executed for doing to.
Read 1984...we are headed that way under progressives. Good Luck, it is always helpful to reveal enemies of democracy cloaked in slogans and dogma.
Owellian newspeak
You better take your Soma pills Bill, cause equating progressives or liberals or leftists with 1984 , boy have you got it backwards, I have never seen America come so close to Orwell's nightmare of 1984 than under the Bush Administration, "Iraq has WMD", the cover up of 9/11, illegal wire tapping, the "Patriot" Act, "We don't torture" Waterboarding is not torture, the loss of Habeas Corpus, the Supreme Court selecting the President, etc etc,
Take your soma pills Bill , well from your writings I guess you already have, sweet dreams!
Not So Sweet
None of us should sleep very well knowing there are 'soccer moms' like you out there spewing rhetoric stirred up by Socialists.
I agree to disagree, there is obviously no middle ground for you. By the way, no pills...I need to stay alert to defend our freedom.
TR, Thanks for the comments
To TR,
Thanks for the comments and I have answered your points before. BTW..I agree with a few and did not respond to those. I can send along a plethora of websites that support my position on Plame. I would be willing to be that you could send along the same for your position. In the end it would be opinion and partisan talking points so I won't do that here. Let me know if you would like to take a subject and to a POINT:COUNTERPOINT debate, In other words we would agree on a topic and write say, 800 words on it and let the readers analyze our points. I think you would be a good person to do that with. It's up to you. E-mail me if you are interested and I will contact you. But for now...here are my comments!
You don't believe in diplomacy. You say it's never worked. Would you like to see the Diplomatic Corps abolished or just diplomacy itself? That diplomacy has never worked is an absurd statement. Diplomacy can work but has, in various cases led to war and not stopped it. Diplomacy is touted as the only answer and it has not been proven to do so. TR, listen, no one believes that we should abandon diplomacy but consider this.
Develop missile defense, strengthen our borders and ports, build an army that no one would dare tangle with and then tell the rest of the world that we are going to mind our own business, not get involved in their internal affairs and be clear that we will not attack anyone unless attacked but if attacked they are done!!! Keep diplomacy alive and free trade but keep them out of our business internally and we will stay out of theirs. How is that absurd…how is that extgriemist.
That "Valerie Plame was not an undercover agent" is an old and officially debunked myth. Bill, these quotes are from Wikipedia and are all sourced (govt documents and court records) and available for all to check: [...]"official legal documents published in the course of the CIA leak grand jury investigation, United States v. Libby, and Congressional investigations fully establish her classified employment as a covert officer for the CIA"[...]. [...] "It is documented that she worked for the CIA in a clandestine capacity relating to counter-proliferation."[...]She was well known in Washington circles as a CIA employee. Everyone who works for the CIA is classified as clandestine, people see them and know who they are but not their jobs. They are all in danger and can be considered under cover.
The counter-proliferation work she and the CIA were doing [was] important Bill, and it was carelessly ruined by the Vice President and others inside and outside of the administration. All those years of work by the CIA ruined and lives of those involved endangered for petty political reasons. Just because her husband embarrassed the White House by exposing the fact that their claims about Niger and yellowcake uranium were unfounded.
So were the secrets that Bill Clinton gave China and aid that he gave North Korea which enabled them the opportunity to develop nuclear weapons. What about Billy Dale and the travel office lives ruined by Hillary…over nothing….no evidence of inpropriety.
I won't sit idly by and let you lie about honorable Americans like Valerie Plame Wilson and her husband Joe. Then stand up and respond to blogs…I welcome your comments!!!! WELL DONE!!!!
Of course in your mind I think you somehow believe what you're saying, and I fully expect you to somehow validate your belief here in further comments. But like so many of your comments it's fallacy. Somehow it's "Truly Frightening" what some groups on the far left are saying and doing, but you ignore what the current President and his administration have done over the past seven years. Total ineptitude everywhere you look. Lying to the American people. Tax breaks for the richest (even though they pay 75% of the taxes, they can afford it so no break for them…btw…I am no tone of them) and cutting funds for the most needy We need to watch out for those who are most needy but government bureaucrats are so inept in administrating programs that the waste is sickening. Yes it happens even more in defense spending.. No-bid contracts and government positions for those who helped get him elected, family friends, and business associates.Can you say Bill Clinton and every other administration including Reagan! Spying on innocent Americans and lying about it, saying that they're just listening in on terrorism suspects when they were actually trapping every phone call, every email, every text message, etc. going through their NSA 'secret rooms' enabled by 'splitters' at AT&T. That has been going on for years as well at the NSA. I don’t have anything to worry about, what about you. They were really interested in terrorists and citizens communicating with dangerous well known radical terrorists. But if you feel that you are of interest to them…so be it.
I see some of the same inane arguments made by other members of the twenty-four percent club who just can't (or won't) accept the truth of what's actually happening to this country, but over the past year or so some of them have gradually accepted reality. The ones that still cling to the fallacy you espouse so fervently in your blog here are the hard core. Nothing is going to change your minds and that's just the way it is. And is anything going to change in you mind, on of maybe 9% of the population that supports Socialism? Your views are not ‘hard core’? 24% approve of the president but I am not one of them…..but……50% or more do not want radical economic and social change that the far Left does. I travel everywhere or to at least 25 states and I can tell you that people elsewhere are not as liberal as Concord , NH which has become a progressive bastion for the Left. And really, more often than not I find some of the letters with which I do not agree to change my mind at times. Can you say the same????
I have hesitated leaving comments to your blog posts because it's pointless. I'll bet that others feel the same. Please do not, debate and discourse is good, unless a person responds that all of their views are the only views and the rest of the people are believers in fallacy or extreme. I listen to and read all sides of the debate and then I respond. Your response here could have been written by anyone on Air America, FSTV, etc. It is rhetoric.
You seem to live to reply to the comments people leave, fervently defending your beliefs as you most certainly will in this case. But I have faith that the vast majority of readers are intelligent and aware enough to read statements like yours claiming that "diplomacy doesn't work", and "Valerie Plame wasn't an undercover agent", and all the other absurd statements, and see that you're living in your own separate reality. Oh they do respond as I have received threatening hate letters sent to my home AND they identify themselves of Socialists, progressives and when they get into power are going to get back at me. Now, is that the ‘inclusion’, ‘free speech’, ‘diversity’, etc that your side embraces????
So that you don’t feel that I live in a separate reality here is what I really believe and you tell me why it is wrong, unrealistic or extremist:
I believe in capitalism
I believe in strong defense, so strong that people will leave is alone and not meddle in our affairs and we should not meddle in theirs.
I believe in self reliance, self determination, hard work and being able to stand on your own two feet rather than rely on others to prop you up.
I believe that a person’s first responsibility is to provide for their own and to give charity to those less fortunate by their choosing
I believe in health care of everyone but not a universal single payer system run by inept government bureaucrats
I believe in diplomacy and foreign aid but when they take the money and then trash us it should be over
I believe in financially and diplomatically effecting wages in third world countries and China in the name of human rights. They don’t have to be equal to ours but they have to allow human beings to live a fairly good life
I believe in limited government and term limits for politicians. TR Daggett should have the opportunity and Bill Bunker should have it as well as a person who is physically challenged. It starts with voting out lawyers and letting normal citizens serve.
I believe in securing our borders, missile defense and shoring up the ports. I also believe in knowing who is here.
I believe in freedom of the press but if the other side wants a ‘fairness doctrine’, then Democracy Now!, NPR, FOX, The Globe, The NY Times, Washington Post, Rush Limbaugh, Air America and others would have to allow ‘vanilla’ programming and writing that provides equal time on all broadcasts…..something like point:counterpoint. Otherwise leave the airways alone.
I believe in a woman’s right to choose…I don’t need to know about it….I don’t want to pay for an abortion.
I believe in fiscal responsibility and for wasteful spending to stop…NOW!!! That means on social and military programs….it does not mean stop spending on the military and then throw it all into social programs.
I believe that we need to take care of those who can not take care of themselves but not let anyone cheat the system and manage the bureaucracy.
I believe in choice in the workplace and fair wages…BASED ON THE SKILL LEVEL OF THE POSITION.
I believe that family is the most important thing and that it does NOT "Take a Village" to raise a child but good parents.
Thanks for introducing us to
Thanks for introducing us to this great site, Bill:
e
Liberty News TV is a half-hour long monthly television program, dedicated to unraveling the spin, lies and misguided policies of corporate-owned politicians, media outlets and misinformed pundits. We combine careful research with humor and satire to create a show that is both entertaining and informative. We aim to reach and activate the apathetic viewer/voter as well as the progressive thinker.
Written by professional journalists, LNTV is one of the few outlets left on the television airwaves where the truth about the Invasion of Iraq, corruption in Washington, loss of individual freedoms and the dangerous growth of corporatism and religious intolerance can be exposed to a general audience. We do not have any formal affiliation with any political party, and are not funded by any political PAC.
You Are Welcome..But A Question and Challenge
Mike,
You are welcome and know that I would share that with you, whether or not it feeds into your fantasies and doctrinaire beliefs as well.
As I mentioned to TR in my post above...you too would be a good POINT:COUNTERPOINT person as well. Would you want to do that on this blog as well???
Now my challenge to you is to do what I do and look at sites and other points of view???
Open minds add to a better debate. I am willing to listen...ARE YOU?????
Thanks,
Bill
I'd give it a shot, but if
I'd give it a shot, but if all your sources are going to be extremists ones like Free Republic, or Townhall, then NO. They are nothing more than rightwing fascist propaganda instruments and I won't bother.
Sorry Bill
No thanks Bill. I stand by what I said. In your mind you will always be right and I won't spend my time playing your game. I'd end up having to double my therapy time and maybe end up in one of those jackets that tie in the back...Not gonna happen.
Enjoy the holidays Bill. I'll drop by from time to time. Actually, if Clay would ever respond to my request that I initiated over a month ago I'll be blogging here myself soon. Hows that sound?
See ya around.
Giving This Some Thought
Giving things some thought and reacting to all of the bloggers who responded to this blog entry I am left with some conclusions.
My entry as always was to challenge some response such as "I think this way because and this is why you should change your view" or "I concede on that point but did you ever think" or "I see your point, can you see mine". As usual I get sucked into responding to talking points and adopting the same tactics as respondents.
My point is that talking points and belief in every fact from sources on either side do not add to debate. I am in contact outside of this blog with three people who write letters or blog here, etc. I can tell you that we probably will not agree but maybe...just maybe we will come to consensus on a couple of points of view at some time in the future. After all we are all human beings with the same frailties and just want a better world. We just have different views of how to get their!
I can say that I respect each of these individuals for coming forward and respecting my right to blog and to an opinion. To dismiss anyone because they are never going to change their opinion so therefore it is fruitless to discuss anything with them, is kind of closed minded and illustrates the point that many on one side does not want debate, just compliance to their agenda. That is not discourse or debate, it is not living in reality either.
To TR, this is not a 'game' but it does not surprise me that you refer to it as that. It is really more important than all of that; it is about one person expressing an opinion and the other convincing them they are incorrect and banter back and forth. The end result being some consensus and understanding of how to move this country and the community forward together through give and take.
As I said before, to take talking points from either side and quote them as facts, is not discourse, debate or productive. Birdflewover is doctrinaire in her beliefs and that was obvious in this blog. She has the right to her opinion but will never give an inch and that is OK. It does not however add to debate or allow both points of view with analysis and the end result of common ground.
On the other hand, I at least try to listen to the other side. After all, I might be wrong and another opinion might be right. I have moderate views and I have more conservative views. I do not take staunch talking point stands on many issues and my views are more in the mainstream. I thirst for knowledge and being a observer of human behavior (and enjoying it), I like to find out what makes others think they way that they do. That is the way that we grow and increase our understanding of the world around us. To feel that you have it all figured out and that is they way it is and should be is not productive. To only read newspapers, editorials, websites with which you agree does nothing but build a persons resolve to be closed minded.
It is understandable that some citizens have an idea of what our country should evolve into. Socialists have waited for decades for the opportunity to experiment with their model. Therefore, it is not surprising that they would be as zealous as they are.
TR, I don't think you'll be wearing one of those jackets anytime soon, but I do hope that you will be joining this blog community as that just further's communication and stimulates thought and maybe, just maybe, we will as a country find common ground through our differences!
Well, Bill, I think you have a blindspot when it comes to 21st Century America. Corporate Fascism is real and part of the Bush Admiinistration's Policy and Program. I believe that most Americans will be very happy on Jan. 20th, 2009, when a new president takes office, as long as it isn't another Bush-style Fascist.
If you have forgotten what fascism is, here is the list of 14 characteristic of fascism:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.