How Progressives Think
I wanted to spark a discussion about the way both progressives and conservatives view themselves and their philosophy.
A progressive Democrat sent me an email and copied several others who I assume are progressives. This list illustrates the thought process of liberals and progressives. Below that list I took the liberty to modify and comment on it! Maybe this will spur interesting discussion of each point.
DISCLAIMER: This was sent to me by a progressive, it does not reflect any of my beliefs and it was not edited from it's original format. This progressives "values are in bold below!
Traditional Progressive Values Versus Traditional Conservative Values Progressive Family Values Conservative Family Values Democracy Authoritarianism Hope Fear Empathy Selfishness and Greed Caring Indifference Integrity Corruption Openness and Transparency Secrecy Open-Mindedness Close-Mindedness Searching Dogmatism Unity Division Peace Violence and Brutality Freedom Control Truthfulness Self-Righteousness and Hypocrisy Honesty Corruption Progressive Patriotism Conservative Patriotism We're all in to together Dog Eat Dog Individualism Common Good Good of the Rich and Powerful
MY INTERPRETATION AND COMMENTS: I took each point that this progressive made and took the corresponding point from above and italicized it.
Traditional Progressive Values Versus Traditional Conservative Values Reviewed: Progressive Family Values (abortion, gay marraige, government mandated control) Conservative Family Values (family privacy, wholesome relationships, abstinence, moral teachings) Democracy (not to be confused with freedom and independence, democracy is related to being able to vote for 'change'.) Authoritarianism (what are progressives referring to when they support so much control over lives) Hope (undefined and just a word) Fear (if you are referring to terror attacks, you are correct) Empathy (progressives are talking about 'some people will have to give some things up') Selfishness and Greed (progressives referring to conservatives who support people keeping more of their hard earned money) Caring (hollow, empty rhetoric from progressives) Indifference (progressives claiming that all conservatives just don't care about anyone) Integrity (are progressives referring to Jack Murtha? Charles Rangel? Chris Dodd? or any other corrupt Democrats) Corruption (there has been alot of corruption in Washington. It just happens to be Republicans turn) Openness and Transparency (progressives referring to the definition of what "is" is, lying to a grand jury, secret health care meetings with no accountability, firing the White House travel office.) Open-Mindedness (I imagine that this refers to their belief in "diversity" and things like gay marriage) Close-Mindedness (Belief in morality, ethics and family values by conservatives) Searching (not quite sure what they mean here but I imagine that they are talking about being flexible with their beliefsetc. Nothing could be further from the truth, Dogmatism (If they mean belief in the free market and low taxes, damned right!) Unity (unity only if you are a progressive. They support no minority or woman who is not in their political philosophy even though they claim to be for woman and minority rights) Division (if that means that conservatives are not going to roll over in one sided compromise) Peace (yes and weakness and kneeling at the mantle of the United Nations.) Violence and Brutality (standing up and defending our country so that we will not have a war on our soil) Freedom ( if that freedom fits progressive agenda. Freedom of choice for women but not for shools) Control (yes, keeping prisoners in jail and having a strong police force, yes) Truthfulness (come on progressives....you do not hold the moral high ground on that one! Self-Righteousness and Hypocrisy (This imples that conservatives tell the truth and libs don't like it.) Progressive Patriotism (burn the flag, support the troops but not the mission, blame America first) Conservative Patriotism (love your country, support the troops if you agree with the mission or not, respect the flag) We're all in to together ("some people are going to have to give some things up, class envy, jealous of the rich, victims, etc. Dog Eat Dog Individualism (What made America great, the way it should be, gives you self respect) Equality (EEOC, Affirmative Action, racial preferences, etc) Hierarchy and Privilege (pull yourselves up by your bootstraps and hard work)
Secrecy (if progressives are referring to state secrets, missle technology not given to China, etc. damned right!)
What????????
Hi Bill,
This list demonstrates the problem with the progressive movement. It is a smarmy, arrogant elite that truly believe if they just explain it one more time, us simple folks will finally get it. I am tired of being spoken down to. The problem is not lack of intellect on the part of conservatives...it is the lack of a coherent argument by progressives!
Don't trouble yourselves with facts! Make arguments that tug at the heart strings even if they are based on exaggerations or even outright fabrications. People of goodwill don't need to talk, they need to listen and it gets very difficult to do that when straight out of the box you are identified as greedy, narrow minded, intolerant or...well..just go down the list.
As to the reply above...I repeat, WHAT?????????
Scott
In a Bill Bunker world redux....
Firstly, I do apologize for putting Mr. Bunker's newly revised "Manifesto of Intolerance and Division" into a metaphorically nuanced context, as Mr. Bunker's succinct definition of democracy in America should justly hang out there in its shameless and unambiguous glory for those with open minds to judge....
As well, Mr. Bunker's world view is easily synopsized in his "Closed Mindedness (Belief in morality, ethics and values by conservatives)" definition, a "you are either with us or against us" mentality that leaves no room for "freedom" of choice in any respect. That is the "coherent" argument. If multiple avenues of choice are not made available, your argument regarding any sort of "freedom" of choice becomes oxymoronic and hypocritical. And your "coherent" argument is....unequivocal statements? And through your use of exclamation points, capitalized words and multiple question marks, are you not embodying arrogance through such actions and "by example"?
....Peace....
Myopic, indeed!
Nevadarati,
You should not preach to anyone about freedom. Freedom means the right to purse life, liberty and happiness.
Progressives are mired in the introspective culture of blame (America is bad) and the insidious culture of death (abortion, euthanasia).
Janis Joplin was questionably talented and a hard core drug addict. Your 60's hippie roots are showing.
We NEED more middle ground but the middle ground of progressives means that it keeps moving left in the name of progress.
Tolerance means "putting up with behavior or attitude that is out of the mainstream". We get that crammed down our throat every day by the Left and there is no stopping the constant attack by the Left.
And your vision is.......
Nice hatchet job, a skill that progressives have fine tuned.
Define morality, is it relative? In your world it certainly is. The war is "immoral" but abortion in your world is not. That is moral relativity.
Freedom of choice. What about educational freedom? (sorry for the use of a question mark). Freedom to use your tax dollars to 'choose' a school which meets your criteria for your child. We can choose to kill them but we can't choose how we want to educate them.
Arrogance and elitism are evident in your writing which equates you to the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
The reason for this post was to illustrate how progressives view themselves in such an elitist and enlightened way and how they excoriate the opposite views.
Thanks Scott
You can not discuss or argue with a Liberal. They find some way to throw out a smoke screen.
Stall tactics. Like the story about Palin firing the librarian. False at the end of the day. As were most of the other accusations.
They know that if they say something enough that those who aren't smart enough to know better will fall in line and repeat that baloney.
Its worse still...
Our new anonymous progressive has demonstrated a prodigious understanding and nimble use of the lexicon. I find myself just a trembling with anticipation at the next virgin offering of the a fore mentioned bard.
whilst reading his inspirational and highly educative prose, one thing seems to have escaped my shallow and vapid brain... or perhaps not... the salient point is that he has no point, other than demonstrating the pomposity of his arrogant ramblings. As with many progressives words are pretty but they really can't contribute to the debate because the common folk just won't understand!!!!!!!!!!!! and one more just for good measure!
Anonymous
Contact me off line and I will fill you in on who it is. At 50 years old, he has surely not grown beyond his liberal youth.
Yes, they think that all we need are words and ideas. The industry I work in we have talkers and doers. Many talk a great game but few can execute their ideas effectively.
It is enough to drive you to drink heavily. i.e. make several large purchases at the state liquor store. Alcohol only masks one's problems and makes things worse.
I do not drink, I am stable enough to handle the world sober.
Apply Lipstick to a Chauvinist Pig? Anyone? Anyone?
I don't know if any of you are close enough, or so inclined, by I heard through the grapevine that some are heading to Obama's Show & Tell today in Concord to bake him some mock apple pie. It's too long a haul for me, but I will be listening for reports back to base.
Crickets Indeed
Glad to see Judy, Scott and Dog back on theblog.
You know, liberals can not be reasoned with. They have their set ideas that are etched in stone and if you prove one point incorrect they revert to the relevance argument.
Nevarandati has retired to cricket land.
The only one missing here is the 'school marm' as Dog refers to him. He has been sending me the most vile and hateful material from Daily KOS or sites like it....
They are all at their prayer meetings
I was talking to a very liberal colleague today that told me about the Obama event at the Stoneyfield Farms yogurt factory, this weekend. It seems that ever since McCain introduced Sarah Palin they have felt the need to begin praying again. To what I am not sure, however, it takes a lot to get a liberal to pray... but I have heard them loud and clear across the country... "Oh God Please Don't Let Obama Lose!
Praying Might Help,
but it'll take more than that. Isn't it grand that it took a woman to wake everyone up? Gotta at least hand that to her, and to McCain for being so politically......sneaky (?)
Very Sneaky...
Those sneaky Republicans...there they go again putting up interesting candidates that seem to look a lot like us and share our values...It's just crazy enough to work...just saying!
Scott
okay, I'll bite
I'm not sure where Obama got the idea that McCain was campaigning with the slogan of more of the same, seems to me that was McCain's opponents saying it. I always took McCain's message of being a Maverick as someone who wanted to buck the Washington same old same, so why is Obama now accusing him of changing his tactics? McCain's VP choice has only shown what he's been attempting to say all along, and if the democrats intial knee jerk reaction is any indication, they are worried.
Which worries me. If Obama's initial reaction to this monkey wrench is panic and attack, what kind of president would he really be? Part of being good at this particular job is being able to handle threats, attacks and problems with a clear head, rational thinking and diplomacy. Even when Sarah Palin stumbled through the George Bush doctrine Charlie Gibson threw at her, she still repeatedly responded in a way that led me to believe she would rather explore all options before jumping into a reponse meant only to appease.
This is about as politcal a piece as you will probably see from me.....so don't chew me up and spit me out if you don't see a lot more!!
Very Astute!
You always get to the heart of the matter ...please keep responding, we all love to read the things you write!
You got it, Terri !
Very astute indeed. We would NEVER chew you up and spit you out, we love everything you post!
I also find BO is quick to whine if others are 'picking on him..' This man wants to run a country? It's a tough, tough world out there and whoever gets elected better be tough enough to take a daily skewering, without it distracting them.
Can you imagine? One job I couldn't imagine applying for - POTUS. No, thanks!
Great stuff, Terri - keep it coming!
Judy
Ditto
No thanks here either, I'd never apply...for one thing don't know if I'd have the thick skin required!
I'm back
Took a hiatus to slay liberal lunacy on the comment board. But since the recent implementation of more austere speech "guidelines", the quality, quantity, and humor has all declined. I hope this forum has retained its more free-range persona associated with the big leagues.
As follow-up to visitations by the Chosen One, I heard tell there were some choice signs awaiting him at Concord. Also picked up on my web-radio connection: there was even a real celebrity presence in the flesh - Michael Graham of 96.9 FM, not to be the least confused with Michael Evans, though I would have enjoyed seeing those two mano y mano - a highly entertaining political conflict that would be.
And it makes sense for Obama and his flock going to a yogurt factory - they found cultures akin to their own, and consistency of product about as substantial as Barrack Insane Obama's grand "Scheme for America". Thanks, but no, Obama, I already have my ideas for how I want to spend my time on planet Earth. Now go back home in your personal space craft last seen hovering over Concord Municipal Airport.
Back to your post topic. Though I know we differ here and there with your list, I think a crucial area of overlap is that we do agree on leaving our neighbors the hell alone, and in return for this consideration, they do likewise for us. The implications of this simple courtesy - dare I say it rises to the level of a Right? - are far and wide. Unfortunately, regardless of which team wins a political contest, the spoils of victory are such that it inevitably results in the retraction of said courtesy. As you are well aware, I have a big problems with this - I guess I'm more sensitive to chaffing caused by shackles, and the heating of the pot.
Consequently, I am conflicted by all the hubbub over the presidential race; both sides are so insidiously polluted. Yes, you can argue one side's less polluted than the other, but other than the words they choose to entice voters at the margins, their actions are not all that different. Maybe these two will surprise at least me, but I doubt it, and will lay down a substantial bet with any one who thinks otherwise.
Looking forward, I anxiously await your next installment, be that about more butt-heads bouncing three abreast on their bikes, or your crusade for Hode's spending the next term vacationing across our great state of New Hampshire.
It's nice to dream from time to time, perchance to imagine all the freedom.
- C. dog e. doG
In a Bill Bunker world, within a myopic universe where there is no "center", where "absolute" and "extreme" are sacrosanct concepts by which to live and the use of "openness" and "tolerance" are grounds for expulsion, where "hope" is a paradox and "fear" is an absolute truth, where every person is truly an island and society as a whole is viewed as not equal to and lesser than the sum of its parts, and finally, is where, in Mr. Bunker's universe, in the words of Janis Joplin, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...."
....Peace....